BTCC vs Aussie V8s

[Craig]

At this point I feel it worth mentioning that, whatever we decide with this idea, *everyone* should feel happy to use the forum - whether they want to discuss the BTCC, DTM, ETCC or V8s! Just because there's lots of BTCC topics at this time, don't feel excluded... if you don't use the forum because you feel there's too many topics talking about BTCC, the situation will only get worse... come on folks, speak up!

[Crash Test]

Craig- I'm sure i could spend some time moving topics over, that probably wouldn't be too much of a drama

With regard to Super Touring... If the forum is called something along the lines of 'Australian Touring Cars' it would probably fit in. It's really hard to say what they are going to be next season, a continuation of being a combination of ST/Future Tourers, or just plain Future tourers.

I would say that this sort of racing would still be considered to be included in the TC forum, it isn't exactly club motorsport...

[Craig]

Okay, so forum title would be 'Australian Touring Cars' and the forum description would read something like 'Discussion of the Australian Touring Car scene - including Bathurst, the Shell V8 series, Future Tourers (????) and the ailing ASTC.' Sound OK ? Anything missing there ?

It would certainly aid our cause if you were prepared to move over the existing topics to the new forum - very much appreciated.

[redshoes]

One of the features of the new forum software that we can take advantage of is to have sub-forums. It effect we could keep the same top-level Touring Car forum and then have a sub-forum within that for the V8s. That would give you:
Car Racing > Touring Cars
Car Racing > Touring Cars > Australian V8s

I'd rather avoid renaming the main TC forum to European.., Other.., Rest of World.., Not V8... or similar.

To reiterate what Craig has already said, although the forum is BTCC dominated I'm happy to see posts about any of the other major TC formulas - ETCC, DTM, DTC, Swedish TC, Danish TC, whatever.

[Craig]

Indeed Redshoes - that's exactly the feature we'll be using

At the moment, I believe this is what we'll end up with:

Car Racing > Touring Cars > European
Car Racing > Touring Cars > Australian

All the posts from the existing forum will be moved to the new sub-forums and will become a category along the same lines as the Car Racing section at the monent - ie no posts will be permitted within this category... only within the forums included within it.

[redshoes]

Don't like the idea of 2nd (European) sub-forum. For me it just complicates the issue of what to call it and what the description should be. As we've already mentioned I'd rather avoid using the term "European" as to me that implies a specific series.

[Crash Test]

Craig/Red- I agree with what you've said since my last post

Perhaps 'British/European Touring Cars'?

[Crash Test]

Originally posted by Craig Antill
Okay, so forum title would be 'Australian Touring Cars' and the forum description would read something like 'Discussion of the Australian Touring Car scene - including Bathurst, the Shell V8 series, Future Tourers (????) and the ailing ASTC.' Sound OK ? Anything missing there ?

How about 'Discussion of the Australian Touring Car scene - including Bathurst, the Shell and Konica V8 Supercar series, Future Tourers and the ailing ASTC.'

[Craig]

Excellent suggestion, Crash, unless anyone comes up with a better suggestion, that's what I suggest we use... and we will, of course, include details of what the forum encompasses in the forum description... ie BTCC, DTM, blah, blah...

Redshoes, I feel it is important that we do it this way as it makes us future proof for a start - we can easily slot additional forums in alongside if and when necessary. Also, if we moved all chat of Aussie TC's to a subforum, we'd simply be creating some sort of ghetto and people would likely not use it anyway cos they would feel we were just trying to shove them in the corner to keep them quiet when, in reality, we were trying to do the exact opposite!

[PBR]

I'm all for an Ozzy touring car forum.

Although I think some consideration should be given to the name of the other forum as European would exclude users from outside europe, while I agree there is little discussion on this forum outside Europe and Australia, This may not be the case in the future. They shouldn't feel discussion is limited to these two area's.

[Airhead]

Craig,

It gets difficult to split everything down to it's component parts. While some of the Group N or Appendix J stuff (in Australia) that Ray has spoken about could be covered in the 'historic' section. It would be effectively burried there. The more general - Australian, European. Or, Australian, European, British divisions aould suit until such a time that further abstractions needed to be made.

[marcus]

I dont think we need to call it "the ailing ASTC" ..sure it may be dying here but lets at least give it the dignity it deserves.

and as crash test has stated next year or the year after super touring will mainly be future tourers the way it is looking at the moment (Future tourers are almost road going V8 Ford's and Holdens that TOCA have created to try and build the 2 litre class up...and the're not that bad actually)
how about we call it Australasia (not sure of the spelling there ..ie australia and asia) to cater for possibly japan, Malaysia and new Zealand and whatever other countries are located in this region.

again i will state that Historic cars belong in the historic forum and FHolden and F Ford belong in the junior classes section and club cars or sports sedans should be in the club racing national series forum for the whole world to see.

im still a bit confused on the name of it as Craig suggested we dont just want Aussies posting because it says Australia ..we want the poms to join in with their opinions or questions..just as we can still join in the BTCC stuff...I do know how the poms feel about not seeing any V8's so why bother joining in ...we are in the same boat with BTCC..there is no coverage at all and my only source of info is basically here at ten tenths.

[Emfa]

Originally posted by marcus
I dont think we need to call it "the ailing ASTC" ..sure it may be dying here but lets at least give it the dignity it deserves.

Here, here. They may appear to be on their last legs, but you never know - they might come back to life

The Touring Car subcategory should work well. Also it will allow for future growth and expansion. This may be a long way off, but isn't there a TC series in South Africa (correct me if I'm wrong) and also a (struggling) North American TC series that we could welcome on board in the future?

One last thing - "Australasian" would probably be good in the title (the V8SC's will cross the Tasman again this year).

[Barbie Girl]

I think a V8 forum would be a great idea!!!
Barbie

[Ray Bell]

I may be new here, but I can see flaws with the split... it will, for one thing, bring a division in the posting rate to make the forum move slower, be less attractive.

And Aussies will likely stay right away from the 'rest of the world' division just the same as most of the 'rest of the world' will decide there's no need to look at the Aussie stuff.

Instead of this total breakaway... and even as a subdivision, it's a breakaway... how about putting an icon to distinguish the threads on the forum topics?

I don't know what the icons that are there at the moment are meant to identify, but if there was an icon for the country of origin of the discussion, then it would be easier for people to pick their threads of interest, while they still (easily) have access and perhaps even some attraction for the others.

It would be more manageable, too, and would be immune to changes in category structure.

It should include all classes, too, and Sports Sedans on the Australian scene fit in with it as well.

If the forum exists for any reason other than just the basic chewing of the fat, then it exists to help people know more about the racing that exists. This won't happen if Australians just look at their own paddock, and if no others look at the Australian paddock. After all, the forum doesn't present the racing, Australian V8s are little-understood outside their homeland.

Keeping them in a world-wide forum and encouraging threads about them will address that issue, while an icon as described will give everyone the feeling that their particular interest is getting a better deal than it did.

Is there anyone who could design some little icons (maybe something like the smilies?) to do this?

[thompson_fan]

Know don't get me wrong, i like the V8 series just as much as the BTCC but the V8 series has little overtaking, look at Skaife at Phillip Island once he got pole all he needed to do was keep it on the road. However he would have worked damn hard but he had clear track ahead of him in both races so was able to power away whereas Lowndes had to fight from around 7th to get his 3rd and 2nd places

[PBrock]

its a ****en fantastic idea. when will it be happening?

[tickfordchick]

I still think splitting the forums is a GREAT idea ... but I have to say ... ask a simple question!! I can't get over the reaction to this ... wow!!

[V8crazy]

I agree that spliting the two would be great.
It's a real pain having to go through all the European stuff to find posts on the Ozzy V8's. The European racing might be good but I'm only interested in Australian motor racing.

[Buckshot]

Yeah V8crazy, gotta agree with you there.

I mean no disrespect to the European categories - but if I can't watch the races on television down here in Australia I'm just not interested in reading about them either.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Buckshot
I mean no disrespect to the European categories - but if I can't watch the races on television down here in Australia I'm just not interested in reading about them either.

Please read my posts to see the flaw in your thoughts. This forum exists for the benefit of enthusiasts, so they can learn and so they can encourage others.

Without any interchange this isn't possible. You want to lock yourself into a corner and eliminate the outside world... it's not what the forum is for!

[Crash Test]

But then Ray, you have to have a look it from another view- at the moment Australian's are discouraged by the sheer number of posts on the BTCC. A lot of people really don't have the time to wade through a couple dozen posts to get to something that they are interested in. If we can get a forum up and running for the Aussies, then there would be more discussion with respect to the local racing, and more than likely we could get a few more people to sign up. Besides, a lot of casual fans really aren't interested in all facets of the sport, just the ones that they follow, which is fair enough imo.

[Buckshot]

The reason I hang out on this forum is to read about the motorsport categories I follow on TV and to discuss these goings on with like minded fans. I not only hang out on the Touring Cars Forum but also on the Indy Cars and the F1 because I also follow these series with great interest.

I'm sorry if I have been mis-using the forum Ray. Please feel free to email me your guidelines for correcting this.

Thankyou.

[Ray Bell]

I'm not saying you're misusing the forum, but I am saying that to make this change will alienate or separate some who now enjoy correspondence through the forum, and will put an end to the learning that each do about the others' racing.

It's a sad state of affairs that you will only look at what you see on television, though. Let me explain that...

You are fed on television what they decide you want to watch, but if you look at other racing, and by various means, I mean this... through this forum, via magazines or (perish the thought... going to race meetings), then you can make your choice for yourself and from a better informed base.

Very few categories have so little going for them that they can't interest you at all. So keeping the Touring Cars all in together, while there might be a little inconvenience for you, still gives this interchange and learning aspect which is important for all... and that includes the forum.

Also, I think I mentioned that it would make the forums slower... so it's better that a few of the Aussies just start a few threads and keep them going so there's a greater presence for the newbies to be enticed by.

[Invader]

I thought I ought to pipe up and say my bit.
The only questions which needs asking are :
1. Would an Aussie TC Forum be self sustaining?
2. Would it dilute the number of posts on the current TC Forum?
3. Don't we already have enough Forums and wouldn't another one be too overfacing in amongst the many others?
I'm trying to think of a new member turning up and looking at the Forum headings and thinking it's too bloody complicated.

Carry on!