Fangio Merc W196...

[Burfs]

...just sold at the FoS for GBP19.6m incl. premium - wow!

[GORDON STREETER]

I was going to bid for it but spent all my money on a 107e !

[apriliadriver]

I went to the auction : for the first time in 25 yrs of doing that you could feel real tension in the air. Bidding was going on in half-a-million £ steps. After it passed £10M, there was a collective sharp intake of breath. After that ... £12M (leaving the troposphere); £13M (leaving the earth's atmosphere); £14M, £15M, £16M (leaving earth's gravitational field ...) and then a new bidder joined in on the phone and got the car. It was a 'Wow!!' moment .... only half the price of a GTO, sure ... but what can you do with the W196 ? If you rebuild it to race, you lose its incredible originality .... and who's going to race something they paid near-£20M for ?

The rich, they are different ....

And what price a Lotus Cortina ?? Everything in the first 30 lots exceeded its top estimate. Some sale.
Nick

[john ruston]

So you spend 19.4 million quid and get the car.
What do you do with it?

[Adam43]

That's not a consideration. You have the cash do what you like Also, better than a painting. For me, anyway. But then you knew that as I hang out here rather than degas.com/forum

The 250GTO point, has any sold for more than 19.6m at auction. I'm struggling to think of another auction higher at the moment.

Goodwood is a good place to sell at auction as the cheaper lots prove. There is at least a 10% Goodwood premium!

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by john ruston

So you spend 19.4 million quid and get the car.
What do you do with it?

Whatever you want! Doors will open....either demo runs or just static you'll be guest of honour at all the big events.

[terence]

Hope the buyer/s kept something back for the resto! Quite amazed this has been in hiding for so long.

[zefarelly]

People think I'm mental paying 2k for a guitar . . .but it looks the mutts hanging on the wall and I can use it. better than a painting.

186k for a Crustina seems a little steep for a museum piece, you're going to need an extra 50k to build a replica and hope it'll get you invited to a few places I suppose. W196 is nuts, I can't comprehend even the investment value.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Hope the buyer/s kept something back for the resto! Quite amazed this has been in hiding for so long.

Resto or just stop the ageing process? Doug Nye has an interesting interview on the Telegraph web site. For example that is Fangio's seat and can be traced back, it has the correct numbers. If it is re-covered it is just another leather seat - where's the history, the provenance?

Imagine repainting Tuankhamun's mask!

[GORDON STREETER]

If everything goes up in price as it gets older I wonder if it's worth cashing in my wife ?

[terence]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Resto or just stop the ageing process? Doug Nye has an interesting interview on the Telegraph web site. For example that is Fangio's seat and can be traced back, it has the correct numbers. If it is re-covered it is just another leather seat - where's the history, the provenance?

Imagine repainting Tuankhamun's mask!

Fangios seat situation applies to any restoration of any car.Been here before.

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by apriliadriver

The rich, they are different ....

And what price a Lotus Cortina ?? Everything in the first 30 lots exceeded its top estimate. Some sale.
Nick

Very true, look at the prices for the sensible historic racing cars:
30 grand for a Lotus 22,
37 for a Sebring Sprite,
24 for a works prepared Healey 3000
etc.
Whoever bought those cars should be very happy.

They did well with the Mercedes W196 but it didn't make much more than when Mr Bamford sold it in 1990 when $20M was rather harder to come by than today!!

[chunder]

Utterly ridiculous to be fair

No car is worth that much money, and the fact it is will be just even more weight to the fact it wont run much is the biggest shame

But these people seem to get richer by the hour and this sort of thing, like art, houses, wine etc seem to attract pillocks who just want to outbid each other for the sake of pride.

Makes a mockery of the world if you ask me

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Hope the buyer/s kept something back for the resto! Quite amazed this has been in hiding for so long.

It was 'hidden' in Beaulieu museum for a bit. Which is part of the story of how it became the only one in private ownership.

As for this being an example of why the world is bad, nah, not really.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by chunder

Utterly ridiculous to be fair

No car is worth that much money, and the fact it is will be just even more weight to the fact it wont run much is the biggest shame

But these people seem to get richer by the hour and this sort of thing, like art, houses, wine etc seem to attract pillocks who just want to outbid each other for the sake of pride.

Makes a mockery of the world if you ask me

There's no barrier to anyone in this country becoming rich and doing the same... or spending similar amounts of their money on something else. More power to them... would love to be in that position myself !

The big issue with these things is authenticity. Assuming it's completely authentic right now... if it's repaired or restored in any way at all it will be less authentic and I guess less valuable. Or put another way, at what point does this thing cease to be the original and evolve into a replica of itself. A bit like Trigger winning an award for owning the same broom for over 20 years... even though it had 17 new heads and 14 new handles, it was still the same broom

[FastDB2s]

Biuld an exact replica & race that, keep the original for displays, barbecues at home & just to sit in, if you have got £20m to buy it creating an exact replica at a few hundred thousand wont damage your bank account much, maybe Mercedes would allow the drawings to be used.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by davyboy

TThe big issue with these things is authenticity. Assuming it's completely authentic right now... if it's repaired or restored in any way at all it will be less authentic and I guess less valuable. Or put another way, at what point does this thing cease to be the original and evolve into a replica of itself. A bit like Trigger winning an award for owning the same broom for over 20 years... even though it had 17 new heads and 14 new handles, it was still the same broom

That one is very original. But joy comes from using it. Even, as you say, just sitting in it.
Whoever has bought it can do what they want.

Personally I'd have to get it running, at least.

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

Very true, look at the prices for the sensible historic racing cars:
30 grand for a Lotus 22,
37 for a Sebring Sprite,
24 for a works prepared Healey 3000
etc.
Whoever bought those cars should be very happy.

They did well with the Mercedes W196 but it didn't make much more than when Mr Bamford sold it in 1990 when $20M was rather harder to come by than today!!

Totally agree I thought they looked relative value

[zefarelly]

THat's silly, they're being made, new, faster than Lotus Cortinas are ! I hope it had some sort of provenance . .or at the very least a pre '73 log book!

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

37 for a Sebring Sprite!!

[simon drabble]

if the catalogue description is correct it had a very nice history

[terence]

That was probably all thrown away during its resto!

[chunder]

Very easy money to be made in this business it seems!

But how on earth you get the capital together to actually start, and then learn the trades you need I dont know! Unless you inherit them.

Saw an ad a few months ago I wish I had seen when I was 21, was for a sort of apprentice in a historic motorsport workshop.

Can't imagine a place where you would learn more, and made me wish I had a time machine, not only to learn the skills but also to profit from them as you would likely be doing now!!

[simon drabble]

Terry that is a valid point - which is why it will be a shame in many ways if that M-B is ever raced as origanlity is easliy lost. However I guess its the perogative of the new owner. GTO's are possibly worth more and they are still thwacked around the circuits and its a delight to us speccies to see them being used. High class dilema!

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

THat's silly, they're being made, new, faster than Lotus Cortinas are ! I hope it had some sort of provenance . .or at the very least a pre '73 log book!

It has certainly been around for sometime, Frank Tiedeman already had it when we bought the Cooper Zephyr which was some 20+ years ago!

[terence]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

Terry that is a valid point - which is why it will be a shame in many ways if that M-B is ever raced as origanlity is easliy lost. However I guess its the perogative of the new owner. GTO's are possibly worth more and they are still thwacked around the circuits and its a delight to us speccies to see them being used. High class dilema!

Quite agree although sometimes originality has to be forgotten about to effect the repairs.One such occasion for me was during the initial assessment of Jack Sears GTO. Jack had always said that it was originally Light Grey with Yellow roundels,the colour scheme that he and Mike Parks raced it at snett in,until Mike stuffed it heavily enough to put them out,however,Jack said the colour really had to be Rosso Corse,so in order to repair the damage properly,ie,get rid of all remaining filler and weld the cracks,the body was stripped.Even if the car was repainted in its original colour,its historic value was lost,merely by losing the original paintwork.Ref Fangio's Seat.