A Russian Grand Prix?

[Sparky]

From F1 News:

Reports from Europe indicate that the Russian government has given permission for a proposed F1-class road racing circuit be constructed near Moscow.

Tom Walkinshaw Racing entered into an agreement with Moscow authorities last December to build the $100m facility on Nagatino Island, just a couple of miles south of the Kremlin. The construction is expected to begin in three months and will take 18 to 24 months to complete. The facility has been designed to accommodate such future additions as hotels, casinos, restaurants and a yacht club.

Once complete, Russia will join the list of countries anxious to bring the high-profile spectacle of Formula 1 races to its venue. One suspects they will be rather high on the list.

A few questions...
Anyone remember the reports recently about the 'Russian Mafia and the Grand Prix Plans'? Do you suppose the Mafia has so much power that they could influence a decision?
Is there a market for Formula 1 races in Russia?
Do any of the teams (or their sponsors) actively sell their cars (or products) there?
What elements would you like to see included in this new circuit? (I take it chicanes are out? )

Is this a good thing for Grand Prix racing in general, and the old chestnut of "Which circuit will be dropped?" comes up again...

[TeddyG]

RussianFriend must be happy about this! Maybe he can fill us in on some of the questions you have Sparky. I think it's a good thing for F1 in general but you think Russia might be better off spending 100 million dollars on more important things than racetracks, but I suppose it's all private investment anyways and would bring business into the area around the GP.
No chicanes!

[SL]

Yes good points. I saw that on the news also and wondered why and how. The news report did not comment on how the circuit was funded. Perhaps it is by the Russian Mafia.

A GP in Russia might do wonders to the sales of B'stone SNOW tyres though.

The Russian Mafia probably could affect the final results, same as the Italian Mafia probably could.

The Russian market must have some appeal, I understand that there is a great demand for Western products, look at the queues outside McDonalds in Moscow. They are also heavy smokers. Wonder why that would appeal to GP planners ????

As to the date, well it has to be high summer for weather reasons. So any GP in July / August might be in doubt, or perhaps they could move, say the UK GP to early spring, to give room for the French GP............


Apart from that, I just cannot wait to see the Sminoff pit babes.

Simon

[R]

Originally posted by TeddyG
RussianFriend must be happy about this! Maybe he can...

Make that a she, Teddy.

This means there could be a Russian GP as early as 2003. I say drop the Hungaroring. Hopefully the Russian track will be better...

[Minardi fan]

The cheek... I posted a topic about this one MONTHS ago, and no-one paid any attention. Watch it at Silverstone Mr. Spark...

Get rid of Sepang or Catalunya, a Russian race would be koooooooool.

[SL]

Minardi Fan,

Are you dreaming of the 'Russian Babes' as advertised on the internet ??????

Think again.

Simon

[Sparky]

Originally posted by Minardi fan
Watch it at Silverstone Mr. Spark...

...Why? You're not having my autograph!

No, I do remember your thread Mr Fan. I think I posted on it too. Didn't we discuss the Tom Walkinshaw/Russian Mafia/Moscow Mayor scenario?

Anyone got a map of downtown Moscow, so we can plan our own track route? Monte Karlo-ski, anyone? Perhaps a temporary pits complex could be erected beside the Kremlin once a year?

Hey! Here's another thought - Can you imagine anyone disobeying a Soviet crowd Marshall?

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by Sparky
From F1 News:




A few questions...
Anyone remember the reports recently about the 'Russian Mafia and the Grand Prix Plans'? Do you suppose the Mafia has so much power that they could influence a decision?
Is there a market for Formula 1 races in Russia?
Do any of the teams (or their sponsors) actively sell their cars (or products) there?
What elements would you like to see included in this new circuit? (I take it chicanes are out? )

Is this a good thing for Grand Prix racing in general, and the old chestnut of "Which circuit will be dropped?" comes up again...

To your first question: definitely yes. I suspect that they would incluence the highest levels of decision making in the country.
2, also yes. They have a very large population, and the TV rights and advertising would have enormous value. They could advertise not only smokes but Vodka.
3. The Lada cars were actually old versions of the Fiat 124 and 125. Suspension wasn't that good. I was allocated the 124 by the Govt. when I was working in Cyprus. I don't know what cars they have now.
4. Nothing much wrong with the ideas behind Sepang. Nice and wide with plenty of runoff. Some overtaking opportunities also.
There is one thing that worries me about Moscow- the weather, I was there one year end of May and it was bitterly cold. However, the place is fantastic to visit, and the GP would just bring more tourists and hence foreign currency into the country.
To drop Hungary for Russia may not be that wise politically, although it seems nobody in this forum like the Hungaroring.

[Tristan]

In truth the economic punch of the mafia is PITANCE against that of...

CIGARETTE COMPANIES!!!!

Granted, the last thing the russian govt needs to be spending money on is a GP circuit. That's why they're not going to. Ciggy companies will stump up most of the cash. Russia is a MASSIVE market for ciggies (2nd biggest in the world after China). What with the EU ban coming up (2006?? I dunno, summit like) obviously the ciggy companies are going to be willing to fund circuits elsewhere. The fact that F1 probably isn't all that big in Russia doesn't matter. The amount of revenue they'd get from ticket reciepts would be a tiny proportion vs. the sponsorship money from TV and companies showing their stuff ON the TV.

In fact, I'd be GLAD to see an F1 race in Russia. If the tobacco giants ARE going to build a GP circuit, I'd rather they built it in Europe than the Far-East, then at least we can watch the darn thing!!

[Speed]

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
They could advertise not only smokes but Vodka.

... And their black gold: caviar

[TeddyG]

Ooops! Sorry Miss/Mrs./Madam RussianFriend I beg for your forgiveness.

[riusnow]

I think a GP in Russia would be very good for their economy (if the fan base is there). But what concerns me the most is the safety of all involved. Russia is sometimes described as a country in turmoil. Remember stories from Brazil about drivers not bringing wives, girlfriends? Maybe in the future the climate there will be different.

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by riusnow
I think a GP in Russia would be very good for their economy (if the fan base is there). But what concerns me the most is the safety of all involved. Russia is sometimes described as a country in turmoil. Remember stories from Brazil about drivers not bringing wives, girlfriends? Maybe in the future the climate there will be different.

I'm not sure if you are aware what a fantastic tourist destination Russia is. I visited Moscow ages ago but unfortunately did not go to St. Petersburg. Moscow is the place to go to, especially if you love the ballet. Just walking in Red Square is a thrill, it is just so beautiful.
As for Teddy G, you can join the Russian Friend queue behind Bononi.

[EERO]

Originally posted by Valve Bounce

...To drop Hungary for Russia may not be that wise politically, although it seems nobody in this forum like the Hungaroring.

Bouncey, I offer myself as the sacrificial lamb. I LIKE the Hungaroring, (and not just for the infield activities)

Its slow, but I actually think that offers up some interesting races, interesting scenary and Budapest, I understand is not to be missed. I'd rather go there than moscow.

[Peter Mallett]

[QUOTE] Originally Posted by Sparky
A few questions...
Anyone remember the reports recently about the 'Russian Mafia and the Grand Prix Plans'? Do you suppose the Mafia has so much power that they could influence a decision?

Just about every corporation in Russia started out as a Mafia business. The violent "negotiations" are generally reducing, but the attitudes are still there. You have to ask yourself. "What ever happened to those nice KGB people when the country opened up?"

Is there a market for Formula 1 races in Russia?

This one is difficult. Certainly the Russian channel RTR shows delayed coverage and that is nation-wide (this is a VERY BIG country). I'm not sure that individuals are really interested. The general culture here is to reduce competition as much as possible because the concept is still difficult to understand.

Do any of the teams (or their sponsors) actively sell their cars (or products) there?

Marlboro is very popular. It's almost rude NOT to smoke here. A Mercedes is seen as the status symbol of successful businessmen. I saw two brand new unregistered Ford Scorpions in Nefteyugansk two days ago. The Toyota Landcruiser is the 4x4 to have.

What elements would you like to see included in this new circuit? (I take it chicanes are out? )

Long straights with tight corners for heavy breaking. How about a really tight harpin at the top of a steep hill leading down past the grandstands to an uphill triple 'S' bend which should be taken flat out by the bravest drivers? What about a couple of flat out curves?

Is this a good thing for Grand Prix racing in general, and the old chestnut of "Which circuit will be dropped?" comes up again...

Why drop any circuits? Why not extend the calendar and run it over 11 months?

[steve nielsen]

BTW: the company that's gonne build the circuit is TWR, they've already signed a contract with the russian government.

[Bononi]

Originally posted by riusnow
Remember stories from Brazil about drivers not bringing wives, girlfriends? Maybe in the future the climate there will be different.

Not quite sure if it is the reason for not bringing wives or
girlfriends to Brazil....

[Tristan]

Hang on, you've got it all wrong.

THERE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A MARKET FOR F1 IN RUSSIA.

The only thing that matters is the world-wide TV audiance (which would be effectivly guarrenteed, like any other race)

Malaysia is a case in point: a nation with a relativly small appetite for motorsport but with a race that people watch around the world. The sponsors effectivly stump up the cash (in this case Petronas did a heck of a lot with some govt. input)

The reason why they'd have a GP in russia is to give exposure to tobacco companies who've had their sponsorship banned in the EU, plain and simple. The race could be on MARS and it wouldn't matter. Gate receipts are irrelevant compared to the £millions$ of sponsors money.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by Tristan


Malaysia is a case in point: a nation with a relativly small appetite for motorsport ..........

Where did that come from?

Admittedly it was six years ago but motorsports branding (Silverstone Tyres is a case in point) was evereywhere. They ran rounds of the Oceanic? rally championship. The Circuit at Shah Alam was a fine facility and they had the Proton championship as a staple at many events. Good crowds even for club type events.

I think the reason that the gates for this year's GP were low are twofold.

1 It was too near last year's.

2 Its seriously expensive for a Malaysian. (This will apply to Moscow) Its too expensive for the average Russian.

[Bononi]

Good point.

Despite the TV audience, the local/regional market must have a reasonable profit from such event.
If a circuit in Moscow will be build from foreign resources, then they surely should accept it.

[RussianFriend]

Sparky,

thank you for this thread, it's all like honey to my soul. If Mr. Ecclstone choose our country, all of you are invited.

But remember: my nick is "RussianFriend" not "Russian Girlfriend", and I hate queues which I have seen enough before (now it's very rare thing in Moscow).

SO I'll try to answer the questions:

1. Mafia: Romantic Mafia period is going to its end in Moscow. You may forget about gangsters in serious business like F1, there're a lot of corrupt officials (KGB, police) to replace them. So if you say "Russian Mafia" you must mean "Russian Officials".

2. Market: strong tobacco TV-add is banned, but if you show the posters on the track it's still OK. Marlboro, West and Lucky Strike are very popular in Russia (for the latter brand I work). All last models of road cars appear in Moscow almost the same time they do in Europe. Moscow is complitelly different the rest regions of Russia (unfortunatelly for the rest). The tickets would be too expensive for average Russian, but not for average Moscow yappi. Adelaida-2000 wasn't covered by TV, the tickets to see sputnic-TV (uncommented) version was high, but all of them was bought several days before the event.

3. Circuit: I have the draft of the future circuit (it's funny). On Monday I will bring the magazine to my job and scan it. So you will have the oportunity to see it too. It 's not in the center of Moscow, so forget about Kremlin. Not this area is empty, but it wouldn't be difficule to get there.

4. Weather: this point maybe key one for Bernie, we like to use some chemicals to change the weater before the important event (parade), so Bernie may order sun or rain for the race.

5. Circuit to replace: one of two Germans circuits.

[Sparky]

Thanks for your reply Russianfriend.

I would love to see the draft circuit map. If you could scan and post it here, we'd all love to see it. As I understand it, the facility would be built on Nagatino Island. This is a couple of miles south of the Kremlin - Is that right?
I heard that there is enough development land to include hotels, restaurants, casinos and a yacht club. It should be quite a place. I'll gladly accept the invitation!

Unfortunately, the corruption is about the only thing we get to hear about from your beautiful country.
I understand the police are really trying to crack down on organised crime and black market activities, but I feel there will always be these elements in such a young democracy. (But perhaps that's for a different discussion)

Steve Neilsen - I didn't realise TWR were actually going to construct the place, I just assumed they were the organising 'the plan'. It's a pretty brave move for a (relatively) small company that specialises in race car construction to take SO far from home.

It's going to be one heck of a place to visit. A Ten-Tenths day out?

[RussianFriend]

Sparky,

The only person who may prevent F1 in Russia is Mr. Putin (our President), but I don't think he'll do. Forces are staying now at the head of Mafia, and if they would need to interfere they have other way to do without street wars. So leave your prejuces about corruption (consider it to be our national tradition like british royal family).

Regarding TWR, I don't remember the conditions of the contract, so I'll check in my achive and post it here on Monday.

A Ten-Tenths day-out? Why not...

By the way, can somebody explain me why these smiles are unavailable to be inserted to the post for me?

[RussianFriend]

As I have promised, here are the sketch of the future Russian ring. TWR was been signed to design and built it, and they have offered their sirvice to manage the circuit complex.

This going to built in 18 - 24 months. As you may see it includes not only F1 - circuit, but oval track too. It's 4,7 km long. IMF has already agreed to conduct Superbike world championship stage there.

DO you like it?

[Sparky]

Thanks Russianfriend!

I've tried to draw a plan of it. I had to guess the 'South' corner because I couldn't quite see it on your image. Is this how it looks?

I like the fact that there are a many different circuits (Oval, F1, Road course) included in the design.

4.7 km long. That's a little longer than the Indy oval F1 track, but a little shorter than say... Sepang.

I have to say I'm a bit worried about the 90-deg bend half way along the oval backstretch. Could be quite a bottle neck after the speed of the oval.

Other than that, I think it will work well.
Thanks again.