[LM24 Race] Le Mans Entry List 2019 (and entry list speculation)

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

No problem with the allocation. GT cars are the heart and soul of sportscar racing. Either they make the bulk of the grid of just take them out entirely and run protos only at Le Mans. Which I am ok with actually as well. GTE Pro is the best racing on the planet today.

I'll make another comment that will trigger you guys: I hope everybody uses their traditional factory liveries this year. 4 White/Red/Black Porsches and 4 Maroon/Dark Blue Fords.

Dull, dull, dull..... IMO.....

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

Depends what you call the top class. For 2019 it is GTE.

I rather think we've twigged that one already.......

[Lutzvic]

Exactely!

[Le Vieux]

Clearly some prefer more prototypes, others more GTs.

Either way we should be thankful that there will be a full grid. Some of us can well remember 1992 Le Mans - 30 entries, 14 finishers and not one GT among them.

At least we have variety this year and, if nothing else, the inclusion of so many GTs is closer to the original spirit of the race .

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Le Vieux

At least we have variety this year

???

Along with 2017 it's actually the lowest amount of chassis variety this decade. And I haven't even included multiple chassis options (divided to different categories, or for example open top version next to coupe etc) to this list but just the makes themselves

2019
Toyota
Oreca
Dallara
Kodewa-Kolles
Onroak
Ferrari
Porsche
Ford
Aston Martin
Corvette
BMW
= 11

2018
Toyota
Oreca
Dallara
Kodewa-Kolles
Ginetta
Onroak
Ferrari
Porsche
Aston Martin
Ford
Corvette
BMW
(Reserve: Riley)
= 12+1

2017
Porsche
Toyota
Kodewa-Kolles
Oreca
Onroak
Dallara
Riley
Ferrari
Corvette
Ford
Aston Martin
= 11

2016
Audi
Porsche
Toyota
Oreca
Kodewa-Kolles
Onroak
BR
Zytek
Ferrari
Corvette
Ford
Aston Martin
= 12

2015
Audi
Porsche
Toyota
Nissan
Oreca
Kodewa-Kolles
Onroak
BR
Zytek
Dome
Ferrari
Corvette
Aston Martin
Viper
(Withdrawn: HPD)
= 14+1

2014
Audi
Porsche
Toyota
Oreca
Kodewa-Kolles
Onroak
Zytek
Ferrari
Corvette
Aston Martin
Viper
Nissan
(Withdrawn: Dome)
= 12+1

2013
Audi
Toyota
Lola
HPD
Oreca
Onroak
Zytek
Kodewa-Kolles
Ferrari
Porsche
Corvette
Aston Martin
Viper
(Withdrawn: GreenGT)
= 13+1

2012
Audi
Toyota
Lola
Pescarolo (03)
Dome
HPD
Onroak
Oreca
Zytek
Norma
Ferrari
Porsche
Corvette
Aston Martin
Nissan
(Withdrawn: Lotus)
= 15+1

2011
Audi
Peugeot
Lola
Pescarolo/Onroak
HPD
Zytek
Aston Martin
Oreca/Courage
Norma
Ferrari
Porsche
Corvette
BMW
Ford
Lotus
= 15

2010
Audi
Peugeot
Lola
Pescarolo/Onroak
Oreca/Courage
HPD
Zytek
WR
Norma
Aston Martin
Corvette
Ford
Saleen
Lamborghini
Ferrari
Porsche
BMW
Spyker
Jaguar
(Withdrawn: Dome)
= 19+1

[Le Vieux]

Sorry, I should have made my post clearer.

I meant that GT in 2019 has much more variety than in 1992:

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Le Vieux

Clearly some prefer more prototypes, others more GTs.

Either way we should be thankful that there will be a full grid. Some of us can well remember 1992 Le Mans - 30 entries, 14 finishers and not one GT among them.

But actually a rather good race between Peugeot and Toyota - and sensational cars..... other than the Debora, of course.....

[Deleted]

Participation percentages

WEC in LM24
The grid: 34/60 = 56,66%
Reserves included: 34/70 = 48,57%

ELMS in LM24
The grid: 13/60 = 21,66%
Reserves included: 20/70 = 28,57%

IMSA in LM24
The grid: 9/60 = 15,00 %
Reserves included: 10/70 = 14,28%

ASLMS in LM24
The grid: 4/60 = 6,66%
Reserves included: 6/70 = 8,57%

---

WEC 2018-2019 Full Season accepted into LM24
The grid: 34/36 = 94,44%
Reserves included: 34/36 = 94,44%

ELMS 2019 Full Season accepted into LM24
The grid: 12/41 = 29,26%
Reserves included: 19/41 = 46,34%

[Mike E]

This makes even more of a mockery of their LM entry and the ACO's alleged entry criteria. Very clearly a political move to add a bullet to Ferrari's gun against the Ford/Porsche hordes. I like Risi as much as the next fan, and I love the idea of a privateer (even a heavily factory-favoured one) competing in the Pro class, but this is another slap in the face for faithful ACO series entrants.



https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/r...er-imsa-plans/

[Deleted]

They announced the no-intention-to-race-anywhere before Daytona even started so this is kind of non-news at this point

Anyways Ferrari had the third LM-only AF Corse last year and this is just their replacement lobby entry now to counter balance for the mass Porsche/Ford fleet once again, we all know it really

Next year they don't need them because PRO depletes itself

[Le Vieux]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

But actually a rather good race between Peugeot and Toyota - and sensational cars..... other than the Debora, of course.....

I seem to recall that some years ago, when I made a similar remark about Debora, there was an outcry in their favour......

It's these small French teams that add greatly to the flavour of LM - something that has perhaps been missing in recent years

[Deleted]

What is also missing is the weird / leftield / unique / exotic / questionable cars and teams... You know Pilbeams, Paganis, Domes etc... Now the only one left is ByKolles lol

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Le Vieux

I seem to recall that some years ago, when I made a similar remark about Debora, there was an outcry in their favour......

It's these small French teams that add greatly to the flavour of LM - something that has perhaps been missing in recent years

True enough. But the Debora was very bad indeed.......

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

True enough. But the Debora was very bad indeed.......

If I recall correctly from the '92 review video, it provided a small moment of amusement when Bob Constanduros in the pitlane was reporting on something, the booth interrupted with news about the Debora spinning, and he tried at least 4 times the "Debora pirouetting" line until the booth caught on.

[Aysedasi]

Ah yes Victor, I remember that very well..... The Debora was very good at pirouetting too.....

[gert]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Looking at the United Autosports thing a little more - the more you look at it, the worse it gets.

The one entry they have is for AsLMS. The ELMS Entry appears 3rd on the reserve list. UA finished 4th in ELMS. DragonSpeed, Panis Barthez, TDS Racing, Graff, Algarve and Vilorba Corse all finished behind them and gained entries. They're also behind Duqueine and High Class on the reserves, who they also beat.

You could argue "they have an entry, why do they need more?" but that argument falls down quickly when we have 4 Ford and 4 Porsches. I suspect that the DPi project may get a little more funding now.

Looking at GTE-Am, it makes even less sense. #55 Spirit of Race is a little bit of an odd one to put in, but 2 Kessel Racing cars? Meanwhile, Ebimotors step up from GT3 to GTE-Am and actually lose a slot? Proton have managed to secure 4 entries as well - ok 2 of those are WEC, and one is for the ELMS GTE-Am victory, but how is the 4th justified?

It's pretty easy to make an argument for removing the following cars:

Pro
#69 Ford
#94 Porsche

Am
#55 Spirit of Race
#60 Kessel Racing
#78 Proton

You could extend that to include another factory car from Ford and Porsche, but it's getting a bit much at that point. But I'd argue that certainly another United Autosports entry, Duqueine and High Class deserve entries over these cars. And I'd include Ebimotors, since they stepped up in the way the ACO wanted them to.

MSR...I want them to be in, but I can see why they aren't. But that low on the reserve list is a bit crazy. But again, if we weren't flooding the GTE-Pro ranks with factory cars then we'd get fun entries like this.

Edit: And I don't care that the Ginetta didn't make it on. Sorry, this is just another LMP3 mess. Had plenty of chances, but didn't make it again.

I agree with much of what you said.
For me personally, I would remove the Risi car as well.
I like Risi, I really do, but since they don't race anywhere I don't think they deserve their entry as much as others do. See Ginetta ...

I think the 4th Proton car is indeed for winning Le Mans.
IIRC they could take up that invitation because they had an active eligable car. That would not have been the case if they only had 2 WEC cars and none in ELMS.

[PascaLM]

If the GTs categories had merged, several years ago, we would have more brands in GT. And many "small" prototypes manufacturers cannot afford Le Mans now because competing in a championship is now mandatory.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

And many "small" prototypes manufacturers cannot afford Le Mans now because competing in a championship is now mandatory.

"Small prototype manufacturers" aren't allowed to join LMP2 and LMP3 because of cartel regulations, and as for them in LMP1, obviously they're banned in competing in ELMS/ASLMS/IMSA... and the full season request WEC request doesn't help either

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Chiana

"Small prototype manufacturers" aren't allowed to join LMP2 and LMP3 because of cartel regulations, and as for them in LMP1, obviously they're banned in competing in ELMS/ASLMS/IMSA... and the full season request WEC request doesn't help either

And asking a manufacturer to step up from nothing to LMP1 is too big. LMP3/LMP2 stepping stones are gone.

[LC2guy]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

And asking a manufacturer to step up from nothing to LMP1 is too big. LMP3/LMP2 stepping stones are gone.

And even if they made the commitment to fund & build an LMP1, if they couldn't commit to whole WEC, they wouldn't get accepted for Le Mans 24. Too many off the shelf AM GTs take priority. ( just ask Ginetta ).

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by LC2guy

And even if they made the commitment to fund & build an LMP1, if they couldn't commit to whole WEC, they wouldn't get accepted for Le Mans 24. Too many off the shelf AM GTs take priority. ( just ask Ginetta ).

Do we know Ginetta asked? (I may have missed something - I usually do.... ).

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by LC2guy

And even if they made the commitment to fund & build an LMP1, if they couldn't commit to whole WEC, they wouldn't get accepted for Le Mans 24. Too many off the shelf AM GTs take priority. ( just ask Ginetta ).

I do agree, but I don't think we should ask Ginetta. The AM GTs have taken priority because Ginetta aren't even putting in the effort to be there anymore. They even said they won't do Spa if they didn't get a LM entry. They blamed everybody but themselves for the state the project is in, and expected to be able to fail to turn up to events they had committed to.

A new manufacturer not getting a LM entry because an Am GT team took it would be sad. Ginetta were given multiple chances, couldn't make it work. It's time to give those spots to teams who will actually make the race and appreciate it.

Might sound harsh, but it is what it is. When the Ginetta LMP1 thread started, a bunch of us said "they better not mess this up like the LMP3", and here we are. Limited sympathy.

As Aysedasi has pointed out - has Ginetta asked? Or are they using this as an excuse? "We didn't get a LM entry, now we won't bother doing Spa". Remember when they blamed the ACO for not letting them run Silverstone, claiming the car was ready? And then it turns out it wasn't? Looks awfully familiar here.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I do agree, but I don't think we should ask Ginetta. The AM GTs have taken priority because Ginetta aren't even putting in the effort to be there anymore. They even said they won't do Spa if they didn't get a LM entry. They blamed everybody but themselves for the state the project is in, and expected to be able to fail to turn up to events they had committed to.

A new manufacturer not getting a LM entry because an Am GT team took it would be sad. Ginetta were given multiple chances, couldn't make it work. It's time to give those spots to teams who will actually make the race and appreciate it.

Might sound harsh, but it is what it is. When the Ginetta LMP1 thread started, a bunch of us said "they better not mess this up like the LMP3", and here we are. Limited sympathy.

As Aysedasi has pointed out - has Ginetta asked? Or are they using this as an excuse? "We didn't get a LM entry, now we won't bother doing Spa". Remember when they blamed the ACO for not letting them run Silverstone, claiming the car was ready? And then it turns out it wasn't? Looks awfully familiar here.

Ginetta had asked for entries per what GG said on MP podcast. And they didn't strictly say they wouldn't do Spa otherwise... as in it wasn't a threat, but just 'we might do it'... but anyway now that they indeed have been rejected, going to Spa would obviously be pointless and waste of time and money

Technically their LMP3 chassis never was bad-bad, even after the 'factory' support had ended and most of the original Ginetta teams switched to the stock French option, the chassis managed to beat most of the Onroaks at RLM that one year. And the car is still run at times, about as much as ADESS. Obviously not even mentioning Riley and stillborn Dome

Anyway as I've said before I firmly believe that any LMP1 should be on the grid, regardless of anything else. Also, Average Joe who only watches Le Mans per year isn't going to understand why you would have random clone neverheard GTE-AMs chosen over LMP1 cars

[Mike E]

Rumours and speculation...


"Risi Finalizing Driver Lineup
Despite Pierre Kaffer and Stephane Ortelli appearing on the provisional entry list, the team has yet to finalize the lineup for the race.
A number of drivers, including former Audi LMP1 factory star Benoit Treluyer and Daytona and Sebring winner Pipo Derani, are understood to be in the mix.
Mayer indicated that a final decision will not likely come until closer to the driver nomination deadline in early April.
“It’s a very unique deal,” he said. “It depends on what Giuseppe and Ferrari wants to do.”
It’s believed that longtime Risi driver Toni Vilander will likely be placed with WeatherTech Racing’s effort in GTE-Am, with fellow factory drivers Miguel Molina, Davide Rigon and James Calado already confirmed in AF Corse’s season-long FIA World Endurance Championship entries."


https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...te-pro-return/

[LC2guy]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Ginetta had asked for entries per what GG said on MP podcast.

Anyway as I've said before I firmly believe that any LMP1 should be on the grid, regardless of anything else. Also, Average Joe who only watches Le Mans per year isn't going to understand why you would have random clone neverheard GTE-AMs chosen over LMP1 cars

I Agree. Whilst you have LMP1 Prototypes wanting to enter, surely these should be given priority. ( It's not like Ginetta didn't commit to LMP1, they just over estimated teams interest. Compare that to the " Commitment " of buying a year old GT car for a rich AM). If the day comes when there isn't any interest in Proto class there would be no shortage of GT cars to take over, but whilst Protos are available, let them Race.

[Deleted]

Yes

8 cars also numerically makes your primary class look much much weaker than if it was 10

And yes I can see how the same argument could theoretically be used for prioritizing PRO [over LMP2], but that's still Division 3 or 2 depending how you look at it, not Division 1

Now, a decade ago LMP1 cars did get rejected to reserve lists or shafted completely like Ginetta here as well, but that was because there were 15-25 P1 cars requesting entry in addition to 15-25 LMP2s. P1 did still receive priority over everything else though, look at 2008-2010 for example