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Old 5 Jul 2017, 12:12 (Ref:3749093)   #251
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AoB Special Stage should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAoB Special Stage should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/pe...le-mans-entry/
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 13:24 (Ref:3749102)   #252
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This would be a warm up exercise with a stock Oreca chassis. I like the idea!
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 13:29 (Ref:3749103)   #253
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“This is something that we have considered but we won’t be sure whether it is feasible until we better understand the status of our core program,” Cindric told Sportscar365.

I wonder how many people will choose to ignore the meaning of that sentence.
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 13:43 (Ref:3749104)   #254
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Agreed that the Dagys click-bait headlines which state one thing, and then when you read the article it's actually quite the opposite, are getting rather tiresome...
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 14:49 (Ref:3749121)   #255
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“This is something that we have considered but we won’t be sure whether it is feasible until we better understand the status of our core program,” Cindric told Sportscar365.

I wonder how many people will choose to ignore the meaning of that sentence.
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 15:29 (Ref:3749123)   #256
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“This is something that we have considered but we won’t be sure whether it is feasible until we better understand the status of our core program,” Cindric told Sportscar365.

I wonder how many people will choose to ignore the meaning of that sentence.
Debatable what it means.

As I read it, he has no certainty that the Honda-powered Oreca program for 2018 is on or not. No point in worrying about testing the Oreca chassis at Petit if the company isn’t going to race it next season.

Considering this is July and Penske is Penske, I’d say that 2018 might be pretty shaky if the deal hasn’t been signed yet.

Penske isn’t about to half-4$$ any project. If he is going to the Rolex he will need to be building way before Petit. I’d think he would want an Oreca chassis next month to start measuring and cutting ... and testing.

I can’t see him getting a chassis two weeks before the Petit .... doesn’t strike me as the Penske way. This is the guy who expects everyone to show up 15 minutes ahead of schedule and wait for the meeting to start.

I’d imagine he would want to be testing the basically complete Oreca-Honda at Daytona by November

If Penske and Honda cannot get something solid in a few weeks ... hard to imagine they will be on the grid next season.
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 16:32 (Ref:3749129)   #257
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Either it happens or not. I like to be informed on things that are going to happen. But at the same time I take every story with a grain of salt unless said thing is stated to happen by the group responsible. Like the Porsche leaving lmp1 or the 5 new private teams. If Penske join then great. If not, well it solidifies that some so-called journalists do what we in the U.S. know they do already.
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 19:22 (Ref:3749155)   #258
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The trade of rumor and speculation in motorsports journalism is a long time tradition. Silly Season is a common thread of conversation for fans of most professional series, that includes driver, team, and manufacturer movement.

I think Marshall Pruett does publish rumors and he broke Honda before the manufacturer has confirmed the program, but he doesn't just throw out unfounded fairy tales for clicks.

On Dagys, he goes to the source, interviews relevant people, and then publishes his findings with a story and conclusions based on that interview, and I'm sure what he's been seeing and hearing from the paddock. Sometimes 2 and 2 don't always equal 4 in racing, especially when it comes to manufacturers making commitments to a championship.

But I really don't understand the "Honda/Acura/Penske isn't happening" crowd. Where does that story come from? What are the sources that are confirming American Honda will not be in IMSA Prototype next year? Are they committed? No. We have to wait for a formal commitment, but measured phrases don't equal an out and out denial of participation.

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Old 5 Jul 2017, 19:30 (Ref:3749157)   #259
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I don't have a problem with people reporting rumours or speculation. There is of course a market for that. People want to read speculation, they want to know rumours, and they certainly want to discuss it. I have no problem at all with that. I just think things should be reported in a more transparent way.

Ford say they're not interested in DPi, but they're keeping an eye on it. I don't think an appropriate headline is "Ford keeping an eye on DPi", because that gives a false impression of what the actual content was. It is technically correct as that's what they said, but it was certainly not the intention of the quote, and it misleads the reader in order to get a sensational headline.

I think it's fine to post rumour and speculation. I just think it should be more transparent that what you're reporting is rumour. If I ran a news site, I'd be reporting Honda DPi rumours. But it'd be tagged as rumour or speculation, and it'd certainly not be after a click bait headline. Whilst rumour and speculation has always been part of motorsport, click bait headlines are certainly becoming worse. And I'd like it if it stopped.
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 19:39 (Ref:3749160)   #260
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Debatable what it means.

As I read it, he has no certainty that the Honda-powered Oreca program for 2018 is on or not. No point in worrying about testing the Oreca chassis at Petit if the company isn’t going to race it next season.

Considering this is July and Penske is Penske, I’d say that 2018 might be pretty shaky if the deal hasn’t been signed yet.

Penske isn’t about to half-4$$ any project. If he is going to the Rolex he will need to be building way before Petit. I’d think he would want an Oreca chassis next month to start measuring and cutting ... and testing.

I can’t see him getting a chassis two weeks before the Petit .... doesn’t strike me as the Penske way. This is the guy who expects everyone to show up 15 minutes ahead of schedule and wait for the meeting to start.

I’d imagine he would want to be testing the basically complete Oreca-Honda at Daytona by November

If Penske and Honda cannot get something solid in a few weeks ... hard to imagine they will be on the grid next season.
I'm old, tired, and senile, and 'don't know nuttin'...but I'm willin' to bet that Rogere is gettin' here too and is gettin' ready to call it quits. He loves the game but isn't to keen on where it's all goin' either.

I know, I know. I'm livin' in the past () to many of you "kids", but you'll understand x number of years from now when you look back and wonder what happened too.
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 20:10 (Ref:3749163)   #261
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I don't have a problem with people reporting rumours or speculation. There is of course a market for that. People want to read speculation, they want to know rumours, and they certainly want to discuss it. I have no problem at all with that. I just think things should be reported in a more transparent way.

Ford say they're not interested in DPi, but they're keeping an eye on it. I don't think an appropriate headline is "Ford keeping an eye on DPi", because that gives a false impression of what the actual content was. It is technically correct as that's what they said, but it was certainly not the intention of the quote, and it misleads the reader in order to get a sensational headline.

I think it's fine to post rumour and speculation. I just think it should be more transparent that what you're reporting is rumour. If I ran a news site, I'd be reporting Honda DPi rumours. But it'd be tagged as rumour or speculation, and it'd certainly not be after a click bait headline. Whilst rumour and speculation has always been part of motorsport, click bait headlines are certainly becoming worse. And I'd like it if it stopped.
I agree, however I wouldn't say the Honda stuff has fallen under the click bait headline. I equate the Honda stories to the Cadillac stories. Cadillac stories weren't official until November, but in September they were the worst kept secret in sports. Around Watkins Glen people seemed fairly certain that GM would jump into the new DPi formula with Cadillac, but it took until November for that to be official.

By the sounds of it, the Honda is under development already - like the Cadillac was - but we have to wait for this summer's announcement before it is official.

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Old 5 Jul 2017, 20:10 (Ref:3749165)   #262
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What are the sources that are confirming American Honda will not be in IMSA Prototype next year? Are they committed? No. We have to wait for a formal commitment, but measured phrases don't equal an out and out denial of participation. Chris
Right.

Oh, and where are the sources saying they will be? As you say ...

I said the meaning was debatable. I did Not say that Honda/Penske Would Not be there. Don't be reporting rumors with misleading headlines.

I stand by what I said. I don't think Penske is going to wait a lot longer for things to work out.

Anent what JimClark said ... I also guess Roger isn't doing all the driving over there now. That is something I will need to consider more in the future. He's going strong at 80 and could be sharp another ten years .. but I could see him getting tired of playing on a field tilted away from him. But for now I figure he signs off on all the big deals.

He sure didn't give Grand Am any more respect than they gave him ... and that was quite a while ago. I doubt he has mellowed much.

Or if it is Honda who can't figure it out ... he runs Chevys in IndyCar, he doesn't need Honda. He doesn't need IMSA. If he cannot get a sweet deal, he won't mind dropping all that and staying with what he's got.

Personally I very much want him back in IMSA. Pretty sure that carries a lot of weight with him.
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 21:07 (Ref:3749173)   #263
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Right.

Oh, and where are the sources saying they will be? As you say ...

I said the meaning was debatable. I did Not say that Honda/Penske Would Not be there. Don't be reporting rumors with misleading headlines.

I stand by what I said. I don't think Penske is going to wait a lot longer for things to work out.

Anent what JimClark said ... I also guess Roger isn't doing all the driving over there now. That is something I will need to consider more in the future. He's going strong at 80 and could be sharp another ten years .. but I could see him getting tired of playing on a field tilted away from him. But for now I figure he signs off on all the big deals.

He sure didn't give Grand Am any more respect than they gave him ... and that was quite a while ago. I doubt he has mellowed much.

Or if it is Honda who can't figure it out ... he runs Chevys in IndyCar, he doesn't need Honda. He doesn't need IMSA. If he cannot get a sweet deal, he won't mind dropping all that and staying with what he's got.

Personally I very much want him back in IMSA. Pretty sure that carries a lot of weight with him.
I think I've failed to make my point. I did not say that you are one of the folks saying that Honda will not be in DPi. I was speaking broadly to that group of people, because there is a camp on this forum (and commenting on articles and the like) who appear to be certain that Penske + Honda + DPi is not at all a possibility.

As far as the rumor goes, this appears to be a really solid one. It passes a number of tests that, for example, the Ford DPi rumor does not hold up to. Honda appears to be imminent for 2018, their GTD commitment is coming to an end, engine and chassis decisions and development are underway, where Ford at best would appear to require the end of the GT program before DPi is reevaluated and a program green lit.

As far as Penske being a Chevy guy in IndyCar and a Honda guy in IMSA, Roger is a Ford guy in NASCAR and a Chevy guy in IndyCar.

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Old 5 Jul 2017, 21:37 (Ref:3749180)   #264
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I think I've failed to make my point.
Or ... I failed to grasp your point. Either way ...

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As far as the rumor goes, this appears to be a really solid one.
I never really looked at it as a rumor. Not every plan which is discussed is just a rumor. As I understand it, both Roger Penske and Honda have an interest in running a DPi ... but the intent is step one, and the cash is countless steps later ....

I have seen him put up (what I assume to be) some of his own money (putting Penske Trucks branding on an IndyCar when he couldn't get a sponsor) but that is about as far as the Captain is willing to pay to play.

If Honda cannot come up with a budget and a timetable and the proper suite of support people Roger will say .. nothing because he won't be around. He's got stuff to do.

I wasn't mentioning Chevy In IndyCar to say Roger was 100% a Chevy guy ... just that he wouldn't be annoying his IndyCar engine supplier if he didn't accept Honda's offer for a DPi program for 2018. He has no eggs in that basket except whatever he chooses to put there.

He could chose to go or to let go at no cost to himself.

I repeat, I hope the program comes together. The Caddys are good, and the teams are pretty slick, but Penske Racing is generally on another level.
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 23:07 (Ref:3749197)   #265
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Dagy's click bait story. LOL

Pruett already wrote about this about a month ago.(it's the biggest secret that isn't a secret)

Dagy just wrote a story that it might not happen because Cindric CAN'T CONFIRM IT to a bozo reporter. The plans at the moment(could change) is that it will be confirmed at Monterrey Speed Week in August.
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 23:09 (Ref:3749198)   #266
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I don't doubt HPD wants to be in DPi next year, but HPD wanting to do something and it actually happening are quite different things. We've got an LMP1 program that was already canned by the time it raced, another LMP1 car that raced once, an LMP2 that raced once followed by two full seasons of trying to get it back on track, and an engine that raced in DP twice to remind us of that. When you look at it that way it's kind of amazing how much wasted R&D HPD has done.
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 23:18 (Ref:3749202)   #267
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Makaze has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Hints that it is more than vaporware.......a Oreca chassis already at Penske's shop.
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 23:22 (Ref:3749203)   #268
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The rumors I'm hearing.....the only reason this doesn't happen is because of IMSA. Penske wanting open comp with GM.(no BOP with ACO spec LMP2)
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Old 6 Jul 2017, 01:11 (Ref:3749208)   #269
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The rumors I'm hearing.....the only reason this doesn't happen is because of IMSA. Penske wanting open comp with GM.(no BOP with ACO spec LMP2)
Interesting. When I thought above that maybe he couldn't cut a deal with IMSA, that was mostly going out on a limb because of last time .... now you say this.
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Old 6 Jul 2017, 01:57 (Ref:3749215)   #270
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And yet we have IMSA saying that they won't split LMP2 and DPI in the near future, which seems to be what teams like Penske and VFR want. With VFR, it's mostly buyer's remorse over the Riley Mk 30, especially in ACO spec, being a piece of junk and they want a Cadillac.

Granted, in this business, what someone says, be it a team owner, car maker, or series sanctioning body, can be quite different from what actually happens. And unless IMSA is that desperate to have Penske or HPD in DPI, or they get a glut of LMP2s, I can't see a split happening just because IMSA is willing to bend over backwards for one team.
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Old 6 Jul 2017, 17:10 (Ref:3749311)   #271
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And yet we have IMSA saying that they won't split LMP2 and DPI in the near future, which seems to be what teams like Penske and VFR want. With VFR, it's mostly buyer's remorse over the Riley Mk 30, especially in ACO spec, being a piece of junk and they want a Cadillac.

Granted, in this business, what someone says, be it a team owner, car maker, or series sanctioning body, can be quite different from what actually happens. And unless IMSA is that desperate to have Penske or HPD in DPI, or they get a glut of LMP2s, I can't see a split happening just because IMSA is willing to bend over backwards for one team.
I don't think they should split myself. The 3 class structure for 2018 should work out. Hopefully the DPI grid will get real large and allow for more all GT races too!

From a 10000 foot view of things, look at Le Mans this year. GTE was a flat out battle to the end with BoP. And it was a great race and it was interesting. LMP was a race of survival of the fittest and attrition and it was also very interesting. I like the diversity. Prototype should have NO BoP. Let them loose and have at it. Test them in speed and reliability through innovation. It may break yes, but isn't that the definition of the word 'PROTOTYPE'?

Leave BoP to GT racing. It has worked out so far as both GTLM and GT3 worldwide not just IMSA has been great. We have been in a golden age of GT racing since 2013 at least.
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Old 6 Jul 2017, 19:31 (Ref:3749343)   #272
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A) I don't think they should split myself.
B) It may break yes, but C) isn't that the definition of the word 'PROTOTYPE'?
A) No one should split you unless you're a woman...

B) That's endurance racing....

C) No. A "PROTOTYPE" is a one-off production. 'Nothing to do with longevity.
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Old 6 Jul 2017, 20:16 (Ref:3749348)   #273
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Pruett strikes again, but this time it's on the program most are pretty sure is actually happening: http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/14205...ears-unveiling

There is an interesting quote in the article, though, from Tim Cindric:

"We have nothing in our possession," he said. "We're digging out some of our old sports car equipment to prepare things as time allows. There's no cars here, there's no engines here, there's no testing we've been a part of. And I'm not aware of any car testing that isn't already testing."

...Wub?

Anyhow, I was gonna let this slip by unmentioned unless someone else decided to bring it up, but something clicked in my brain when I saw the article pop up that makes the whole program make a fair bit more sense, and in my mind a connection that makes it a fair bit more likely.

Specifically, the word that the Honda DPi will be built on an Oreca chassis. Why does this make things seems more likely in my mind? Well... HPD/Acura started out with converted Courage LC75s. All of their successful designs were derived from the same aero those original modified Coruages had - aerodynamic trends that Oreca adopted when they bought Courage. Despite a brief foray away from it with the 05, they've returned to it with the 07 - look at the 03 and the 07, you can see the aero influence of the 03 in the 07.

The aero on a Honda DPi will probably be done by Wirth, just as with all previous Honda LMPs. It makes sense to go with the car that at it's base is the most similar to the aerodynamics they actually did well - and remember that there's no guarantee they'll be taking the Nissan or Mazda route with the aero alterations. In fact, I'd actually EXPECT Honda to go the Cadillac route of visible but still very close to the original design.

I my be overstating how much this increases the likelihood of the program going forward as advertised, but still, it's interesting food for thoguht on how the program would come together.
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Old 6 Jul 2017, 20:44 (Ref:3749351)   #274
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In that case, are HPD shaking the car down themselves somewhere? That's what that quote would seem to suggest, anyway.
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Old 7 Jul 2017, 01:48 (Ref:3749375)   #275
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I know BMW does annual evaluations of their racing programs, but is this a sign BMW is considering changing teams to Andretti for 2018? Rahal to LMP2, although I think unlikely isn't a strong enough word, would make IMSA a tough go as well. The only GT program I could see Andretti referring to in the S365 article a few weeks back was as a BMW team with the new car, and they could have a leg up on the bidding with the FE partnership.
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