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Old 15 Sep 2003, 12:48 (Ref:719511)   #1
jet
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jet should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
What is wrong with the Sauberteam i've heard they did get a new engine from Ferrari and some new aero parts but they didn't get it right in quali and the race.And Frentzen stopped the car in the last lap why was that does anyone know???
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Old 15 Sep 2003, 13:52 (Ref:719555)   #2
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Good question, I thought it may get lost in the other thread, that was on a different subject
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Old 15 Sep 2003, 14:33 (Ref:719580)   #3
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ralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
No-one saw it, Frentzen was in 8th when he retired, god knows what happened, did he get passed by Alonso??
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Old 15 Sep 2003, 14:35 (Ref:719581)   #4
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ralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
As for the Sauber team, IMO next years the key, they are getting a new wind tunnel and a great driver in Fisco so i think next year is the year they start getting things back on track
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Old 15 Sep 2003, 14:36 (Ref:719584)   #5
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Brandy_snap should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Thats not the point though is it... he should have still finished even if Alonso did pass him!
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Old 15 Sep 2003, 14:37 (Ref:719585)   #6
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But question-marks remain, in my mind anyway, over Fisi's ability to pull a team up the grid. It looks like he gave up on Jordan this year about halfway through the year. I don't question his ability to drive quickly, but I'm less sure of his leadership and his motivation.
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Old 15 Sep 2003, 16:02 (Ref:719676)   #7
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BootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Fisichella did have a lot to do with hosting Benetton up the grid in 2001, but he did seem poorly motivated once it became clear how uncompettive Jordan were. Qualifying in Monza was a great effort though.

As for Suaber, I think they've really got the aero package wrong this yerar. The lack of a windtunnel is part of the problem, and that's their main hope for the future. Their drivers seem to ahve given up this year - a kineup of Fisichella and Massa might be better palced to motivate each other. Sadly,it could be too late for them to really be a competitive force.
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Old 15 Sep 2003, 16:12 (Ref:719689)   #8
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Glen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Sauber seem to me like a team that have gone to sleep on the car development. I hope for a much more radical car next year - it clearly isn't enough to have a fabulous engine, the entire package has to be harmonized towards ambitious goals. They are doing the right thing with the wind tunnel, which will be state of the art apparently.
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Old 15 Sep 2003, 16:57 (Ref:719738)   #9
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But question-marks remain, in my mind anyway, over Fisi's ability to pull a team up the grid.
I agree with Boots here. Benetton came on fantastically when Fisi was there.

There was nothing (or very little) any driver could do about Jordan this year. However, while it isn't exactly the development), Fisi's average Q in that car is quite remarkable.
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Old 15 Sep 2003, 17:08 (Ref:719749)   #10
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I bet Fisi will make a great work there in Sauber...aiming Ferrari !!!



*looks around for Inigo*
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Old 15 Sep 2003, 22:17 (Ref:720106)   #11
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f1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quite simply, the Sauber is a pile of monkey turd. I'm surprised that it's beating the Minardi it handles that badly. No wonder the drivers just don't care anymore...
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Old 15 Sep 2003, 22:46 (Ref:720127)   #12
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Quite simply, the Sauber is a pile of monkey turd.
LOL
Most of the problems are squarely down to the BS tyres,but they have had similar aero instability as williams-without the mega recourses to cure it
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Old 15 Sep 2003, 23:30 (Ref:720163)   #13
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I bet Fisi will make a great work there in Sauber...aiming Ferrari !!!



*looks around for Inigo*
I'm here, my friend You know what I think of Fisico, he will be fantastic, as usual. But I also believe that Massa will blossom into a great F1 driver next year. With those two, the Ferrari engine, plus the wind tunnel and some decent engineering - I think they could well be 5th in the WCC next year.
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Old 15 Sep 2003, 23:51 (Ref:720178)   #14
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With a Mercedes or Ferrari powerplant in 2004?
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Old 16 Sep 2003, 08:11 (Ref:720381)   #15
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bumpsteer has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Lack of brains in the design dept.
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Old 16 Sep 2003, 08:36 (Ref:720411)   #16
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jet should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Will they start with the old car next season or a new one??
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Old 16 Sep 2003, 10:40 (Ref:720512)   #17
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The Zuschauer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
They better improve dramatically next year, after their wind tunnel starts working. Although, they've admitted themselves that it won't be fully operational until later in the year - calibration will be in process during December this year (or something like that).

I might point out - they do have a wind tunnel to use at the moment. It's actually a military facility, and no where near as sophisticated as their new one will be - but they DO have access to a wind tunnel.
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Old 16 Sep 2003, 11:58 (Ref:720602)   #18
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Mark Webber has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Sauber need a car maker not some 2nd engine deal without a car maker there DEAD in the water and will be playing with Jordan and Minardi at the bum end of the feild
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Old 16 Sep 2003, 12:55 (Ref:720672)   #19
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With a Mercedes or Ferrari powerplant in 2004?
Ferrari for sure, they already made the deal !
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Old 16 Sep 2003, 12:57 (Ref:720675)   #20
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The Zuschauer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Their Ferrari-customer-engine was fine at Monza, when MS had to out-drag Frentzen on the straight. The speeds were practically identical, until Frentzen backed out to let MS go.

Although, if Frentzen holds up a Ferrari once more, I don't think the "next generation" customer engine will be as powerful.

Manufacturer support would help Sauber, but to come out and make their own engine with more power than last year's Ferrari engine is a bit of a stretch. All that money would be much better spent on mechanical/aero packages. Also add to that some serious Ferrari/McLaren style testing, and better drivers. (I thought Frentzen could do the job, but he really hasn't shown it this year).
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Old 16 Sep 2003, 12:58 (Ref:720678)   #21
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sonic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Sauber need a car maker not some 2nd engine deal without a car maker there DEAD in the water and will be playing with Jordan and Minardi at the bum end of the feild
Hmmm, know what you mean but I don't think Having ferrari cast-off motors is a major problem!

put it this way - im sure if Sauber worked alone with an engine manufacturer they'd struggle more than if they just took ready-developed championship proven motors from the tech geniuses ferrari can afford to employ.
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Old 16 Sep 2003, 13:23 (Ref:720706)   #22
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Mark Webber has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
not a chance . car maker hate being beat by other car makers
sure a struggle to start up but no more than what is happing now . Sauber would have no R&D programme it would be here this is your motor and box good luck when do you want you next one .
If customer base is so hot explain the demise of Sauber they should have the f2002 motor /box and suspension remeber that car cleaned up even without MS it should be good for a top 5 so ok we blame areo so way does it go so bad on track where areo is no so important + sauber has it own wind tunnel so the car is a dog BUT the motor/box/suspesion(rear) is hot something doesn't add up.
Ferrari look after Ferrari and make money out of sauber at the back of the grid
easy Fix Sauber your own car maker
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Old 16 Sep 2003, 13:26 (Ref:720711)   #23
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Sauber would only leave ferrari engines, if he could make a deal with VW, and becoming a third german car maker in the grid, otherwise I think it's a smart move having ferrari.
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Old 16 Sep 2003, 13:44 (Ref:720736)   #24
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DNQ should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The main thing that's wrong, of course, is the car, which quite simply isn't good enough. The second major issue, is the driver pairing. Frentzen and Heidfeld are both very good, however, two Germans with a similar style - one a demotivated driver in his third year with the team, and the other about to hang up the boots - just isn't a good combination. Last year's Massa/Heidfeld and 2001's Kimi/Heidfeld combos were good - it kept Nick fired up, and saw a rookie in the other seat. This year, they should have stuck with Massa IMO, as there was more potential there, then with Frentzen/Heidfeld.

Conclusion - the driver pairing is fairly flat, the car just doens't work, and they're using a year old engine (albeit a very, very strong one ).
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Old 16 Sep 2003, 16:07 (Ref:720902)   #25
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Dani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
the Saubers runed decent at Monza .. but they just failed to finish ..
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