Lotus 59 & 69

[Chris Townsend]

The Bryan Small car was 71/69.3.F2, Small sold it to Roy Baker in 1973. Then to Ken Fildes 1974 [driven by Jordan] then to Warren Booth in 1975.

Will be heading back to NNPL week after next to check all my F2 references from 70-71 but the reference to Emmo using the Rollinson 69 in Brazil is in Motoring News report on the first round of the series there, so has to be taken seriously.

Is Johnny Blades still around?

Chris

[John Turner]

So presumably this is 59-F3-4? Dave Walker's car at Thruxton, 20 September 1970 for the Yellow Pages Formula 3 Europe Cup race. Very creased and faded photo, I'm afraid (if I find the neg, I'll see if that is any better!). I've not trimmed it too much as I rather like the Jurgen Jonsson equipe van in the background; very period!

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

The Bryan Small car was 71/69.3.F2, Small sold it to Roy Baker in 1973. Then to Ken Fildes 1974 [driven by Jordan] then to Warren Booth in 1975.

Thanks for this. The Irish really liked their Lotus 69s didn't they. Does that make four in Ireland?

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

the reference to Emmo using the Rollinson 69 in Brazil is in Motoring News report on the first round of the series there, so has to be taken seriously.

OK, that's pretty compelling. Does MN say why he was using Rollinson's car?

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Is Johnny Blades still around?

John Blades is a more common name than I would have expected. 53 of them in the electoral role. JohnBlades.co.uk is owned by a Northumbria tailor. I wonder if Dan could track him down through his contacts?

Allen

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

John Blades is a more common name than I would have expected. 53 of them in the electoral role. JohnBlades.co.uk is owned by a Northumbria tailor.

Well stap me! It's the same man. According to this page, "our" John Blades "specialises in Gents quality wear" so that would mean he must surely be this John Blades. Telephone and email address on the page.

Next!

Allen

[Alan Brown]

Peter Studer (Switzerland) had this car at Brands Hatch this weekend. Fitted with a BDA for the F2 race, it looked very attractive in Red and Gold Gold Leaf Team Lotus colours.

[RAP]

The F1R Fact Books on F3 record the following additions to your list. (NB these books only rarely give chassis numbers and these are understood to be from “on the day” sightings)

59-F3-8 Walkinshaw Silverstone 4-4-70
59-F3-11 James Hunt Oulton 22-8-70
59-F3-25 Carlos Pace Snetterton 15-3-70, Silverstone 5-4-70,Oulton 22-8-70
59-F3-28 Fritz Jordan Oulton 22-8-70 (Jordan does not start until July but the chassis number indicates an early season car. From somewhere (probably Autosport) I noted this being an ex-Lotus Components car)
59-F3-34 Wilson Fittipaldi Oulton 22-8-70

69-F3-39 Gerry Birrell Brands 21-3-71, R Longman on loan from Lotus Components 3-4-71, and G Naddeo Oulton 21-8-71
69-F3- 46 Barrie Maskell Mallory 29-5-72
69-F3-47 Dave Walker Cadwell 18-7-71

71/69 1.F3 retained by Noe to at least 20-8-72. Attributed to F Togna 16-4-72 and R Manzoni 10-9-72 when Noe not listed.
71/69.3.f3 Cesare Doneda /Sc Delta Corse Monza 11-3-72 & 21-4-72. B Pescia 23-7-72 to at least 10-9-72
71/69.10.F3 Lella Lombardi Monza etc11-3-72, 25-5-72, 6-8-72, 20-8-72, 10-9-72
71/69.12.F3 R Marazzi 29-5-72 Ettore Ricci 23-7-72, 6-8-72, 10-9-72
71/69.21.F3 C Francisci /Sc Nettuno 29-5-72, “Guido” / Sc Meneghina 3-9-72 & 10-9-72

Autosport records both the Gold Leaf/Team Lotus drivers Bond and Walker getting new cars in May 70, presumably having started the year with #3 and #4. From somewhere I have Bond in 59-F3-10 and Walker in 59-F3-14. #14 conflicts with your allocation of this number to Geohagen, assuming that the F3 and FB cars were in a single sequence.

RAP

[Simon Hadfield]

Here at Hadfield Towers we have 71/69 1 F2 now belonging to Lord Laidlaw,& 71/69 5/14 F2 (yes they are the same car) now belonging to Frank Sytner. The ex Emerson car is quite remarkable in having with it virtually all its Richard Divillia 2 litre special bits still with it (and the tall sided cockpit still has both Andy Barton and Dave Muter identification!)

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

69.F2.7 1970 David McConnell [FB] taken to Tasman series, chassis number given by Sargeant website.

Bruce Sergent uses the number 'R7', a number he may have lifted from Vercoe's "Golden Era" as other data seems to have come from there. However, Vercoe calls it a Lotus 59, not a 69. Of course Lotus 59 chassis R7 makes no sense at all. Bruce did acknowledge the Vercoe books when I talked to him about his Tasman data.

Autocourse call McConnell's car a 1850cc Lotus 69 and Autosport refer to it as a very tidy Jim Russell Lotus 69. So it could be also be another contender for 59-F2/XB-42 rather than being in the F2/70 series.

Perhaps David saw it.

Allen

[David McKinney]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Perhaps David saw it.

Yes he did
But if he noted its chassis number he has no longer any record of it
The car's listed in the programmes as a Lotus 69, 1600cc

[allenbrown]

I know I have a nasty habit of digging over old ground but I've come back to 69/71.2.F2 again.

Firstly, Lotus production records show '7169 2F2' going to 'Irish Racing ….. A Rollinson)' - my copy's a bit faded but good enough. Secondly, Autosport (8 Apr 1971 pp10-13) gives the number 69-71-2 at Hockenheim, Rollinson's only appearance in the car. But then it gets wierd. The IRC Lotus 69 doesn't appar again that season and Rollinson races a F5000 Surtees instead. Then, at the Torneio Brasiliero in November, Emerson Fittipaldi is said to be in "his faithful" Lotus 69 but the number is given as 69/71.2.F2, not 69/71.18.F2. Given the "his faithful", I have real trouble believing that he is really in the long-lost IRC car.

Then in 1972 I had Jay Pollock in the ex-IRC/Rollinson Lotus 69 at Mondello on 30 Apr. I just checked this in Autosport in case there was a clue where the car had been and it turns out I've got it completely wrong. It's actually John Pollock in his regular Team Ireland Lotus 69, a 1970 model. I've quickly fixed that.

Barton later had an ex-Fittipaldi/Torneio car but if Emerson's car was 18.F2, not 2.F2, Blades doesn't come into this either. Simon has found Blades' name on the bodywork of 18.F2.

So where did the IRC/Rollinson Lotus 69 go after its one and only appearance? Competitive F2 cars don't just vanish.

Allen

[allenbrown]

Sorry - I've said 18.F2 twice there where I mean 14.F2 as the identity of Emerson's regular Lotus 69 (that started life as 5.F2). 18.F2 was the LIRA car otherwise known as 4.F2. It's not easy!

[Chris Townsend]

Johnny Blades selling "Fittipaldi's Brazil series" Lotus 69 AS 12.4.73 and uses it at Ingliston 15.4.73 [picture AS 19.4.73 p.21], coupled with Simon's discovery suggests that Emmo took 14 to Brazil and that the chassis no got scrambled.

Barton Described as 71/69.5.F2 in AS ad 1976] to Dave Muter [ex Barton AS 24.3.77 p. 47] Dave Muter: F/S AS 5.10.78 p. 68 chassis no given 0670 823248

Chris

[kryten]

The car number 59XB-F2-29 is in my garage right now . one thing I don’t understand is if this was a FF why does it have knock off wheels , from the pictures I’ve seen the FF 59 had a four bolt wheel on .

[allenbrown]

69.F2-3 1970 Adam Potocki retained 1971

Alain Saidi had a F2 Lotus 69 in French hillclimbs 1972/73 and I just stumbled across this thread which seems to be saying it was the ex-Potocki car.

[Chris Townsend]

I'd go with that, and frankly there aren't many other 69s that could be Saidi's car.

Lots of other interesting discussion there about Matra MS5s - including clarification of what I'd long suspected, that Potocki actually had two different ones.

Chris

[Bill Patterson]

Some notes on 71/69-1-F2

The Ikuzawa 1971 Formula 2 car
Sold to Johhny Blades then to Walter Kinnear in N.Ireland and fitted with a Cosworth FVC for Formula Libre racing - painted dark metallic blue
Sold to Barclay Bingham for hillclimbs & sprints - painted red
Sold to Robin Dunbar for hillclimbs & sprints - not used
Sold to Bill Patterson in 1984 for Historic Racing - painted in Ikuzawa colours - competed early 1985
Sold to Mike Pendlebury in 1985 - painted in Ikuzawa colours - won pre-'71 HSCC Series
Sold to Freddy Kumschick(?)

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by Bill Patterson

Some notes on 71/69-1-F2

The Ikuzawa 1971 Formula 2 car
Sold to Mike Pendlebury in 1985 - painted in Ikuzawa colours - won pre-'71 HSCC Series
Sold to Freddy Kumschick(?)

Mike was great to watch in that car, stunningly quick and 100% a gentleman to race with.
Welcome here Bill,

Andrew

[David McKinney]

I haven’t been right back through the thread to check any of this, but this is my understanding.
The car is an interesting one, if only for the variations of its number.
In 1971 I have it being campaigned by Ikuzawa (as 69-71-1), then in the Torneio by Ronald Rossi (69-7169/1F2) and François Migault (71-69/1-F2). My records say it then went to Japan for Urashibara, but I’d be happy to accept I’m wrong on that. Pollock had more than one 69 – I have him in 69-F2-2 in 1971 and another car as well (this one?) in 1972
Billy Patterson ran the car in 1985 (7169-1-F2) and then Mike Pendlebury but although Kumschick was the next owner I’m not sure that he raced it.
It next appears with Alain Filhol racing it for an unknown owner in 1993 and 1994 (69-71-1F2) but in 1997 was with Hall & Fowler and raced by Rob Hall (71-69-1-F2)
At that point my notes run out

[Simon Hadfield]

Then via Sid Hoole to Bobby Rahal and then to Lord Laidlaw?

[JCDimsdale]

Coming in very late on this, I can confirm that 59/69 F3 37 did go from Sutcliffe to me and did get damaged in Macau, but not badly - just rad and o/s/f suspension. I sold it to Percy Chan in Kuala Lumpur, where it stayed for a couple of years before probably going on to Australia. It is NOT the one recently entered for an auction. I had a spare chassis, onto which I rebuilt the car after a major shunt at Mallory, and so this one is probably a complete new rebuild onto the original bare chassis, which I sold when I returned from Macau. And I saw Johnny Blades a couple of years ago at Silverstone, very much alive and kicking! And he was the tailor from Northumberland.

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Bill Patterson

Some notes on 71/69-1-F2

The Ikuzawa 1971 Formula 2 car
Sold to Johhny Blades then to Walter Kinnear in N.Ireland and fitted with a Cosworth FVC for Formula Libre racing - painted dark metallic blue
Sold to Barclay Bingham for hillclimbs & sprints - painted red
Sold to Robin Dunbar for hillclimbs & sprints - not used
Sold to Bill Patterson in 1984 for Historic Racing - painted in Ikuzawa colours - competed early 1985
Sold to Mike Pendlebury in 1985 - painted in Ikuzawa colours - won pre-'71 HSCC Series
Sold to Freddy Kumschick(?)

Walter Kinnear has confirmed via Edward Fitzgerald that his Lotus 69 came from Blades and went to Barclay Bingham.

[RDV]

Fast rewind into memory lane...The two chassis initialy used by Team Bardhal-Fittipaldi were the ex-Hill and ex-Rindt chassis, fresh off the boat (deck -cargo!) from the South American series in 1970, sold to them by Mr.Ecclestone together with the ex-Brabham F1 transporter.Wilson's was 69.F2.4(ex-Rindt), raced by Enzo Corti at Bogota for Jochen Rindt Racing, and Emerson's was 69.F2.5(ex-Hill).

For Pau Emerson had a new car 71.14.F2(also quoted as 71/69.5.F2, this was a result of the common, at the time, juggling of chassi numbers to match the RAC and ATA carnets required to cross frontiers, we all used to have spare chassi plates and a set of stamps to do this), so new that the engine was fitted on the kerb in front of Cosworth, bodywork fitted at the docks in Dover and finished in an all-nighter in the rain at Pau paddock...this was to lead to a fraught qualy session and subsequent DNF due to loose wheel bearings during race, while wilson DNQ due to chronic electrical problems, corrosion related, a legacy of the return from Bogota as deck-cargo.

This car went on to win Jarama and Crystal Palace, by which time Wilson had received his new March 712.

The Imola race in july was notable in that Wilsons March had the first application of an airbox in the induction system in F2, which took him to second place in the first heat, but caused a jammed throttle in the second head as it began to disintegrate..this led to a small off road excursion three laps from the end as he was leading...

[Simon Hadfield]

Re airboxes in F2, Jimmy's Lotus 48 had one in 1967.....

[allenbrown]

Thanks RDV, you've explained why we couldn't understand F2.5 morphing into 14.F2 mid-season.

Do you recall what happened to those three cars (the two originals plus the replacement 14.F2) afterwards?

[RDV]

Simon Hadfield- Re airboxes in F2, Jimmy's Lotus 48 had one in 1967.....

There you go, you live and learn...

allenbrown-Do you recall what happened to those three cars (the two originals plus the replacement 14.F2) afterwards?

14.F2 went on to be raced for another year as the Moonraker Lotus...a bit vague about the others....sold off, not really sure to whom...