Automatic entries 2003, 2004 and 2005?

[vandijk]

I am confused now. I have read a couple of articles and none of them will give the same outcome. Basically I have one question - what is the difference between the 2003, 2004 and 2005 season pre-selected cars regulations for Le Mans?

I am refering to article 3.5 in the 2003 reg that only shows 6 automatic entries for the race last june. These are the winners of class of the LM2002 race (note that LMP675 is in the same class as LMP900 and GTP) and the winners of class of Petit Le Mans 2002 (not the overall result in the series!).

Now per 2004 we should have a maximum of 12 invitees via the single LMES race coming november, 2 via the FIA GT (if specs FIA-ACO are comparible?), 4 (?) class winners via ALMS (overall or Petit) and the 4 (?) class winners of LM 2003. So in theory a maximum of 22 pre-selected entries. Is this right?

What about the 2005 season?

Tx!
/s.

[Tim Northcutt]

Sorry if I caused any confusion on this, but I'm trying to sort it out as well...

This I do know....

For 2004, when the ACO announced the LMES and the LM-Bugatti to kick this new approach off, they indicated exactly how many automatic bids would be extended in their statement:

- Up to 12 bids for the podium winners from the four classes at LM-Bugatti, provided there were at least 9 cars in their respective class
-- We now know that it will be 9 -- 3 from LMP900 and GTP; 2 from LMP 675, 1 from GTS and 3 from GT.

- 8 automiatic bids will go to the ALMS....whether those are the four class winners from this season and the class winners at Petit, or the class winners at Petit and Sebring, or whatever, we don't know, because they don't say....

- 4 other bids to FIA-GT entries, provided they meet ACO regulations...

That is directly from the ACO...it is vague enough to still raise questions, but at least the number of bids are generally outlined....

[Tim Northcutt]

One other Note:

Although I haven't seen anything that spells out how the 2005 automatic bids will work, this is the way I have understood it from previous threads and discussions on this forum:

- The podium winners in all four classes at 2004 Le Mans will get automatic bids (12 total)

- the season points winners from each class in ALMS will each get a bid (4 total)

- the season points winners in each class from LMES will each get an automatic bid (4 total bids)

- four other bids will be extended to FIA-GT teams (2 in GT 2 in N-GT?) provided they meet ACO regulations, for the final four bids...

Does that sound correct????

If not, please correct it....

Thanks!

[vandijk]

That is what I understood as well but I can not get it confirmed...

[Tim Northcutt]

The description of the 2005 automatic bids at least makes sense...

-- It rewards those who finished well at Le Mans itself...podium winners in each class deserve an automatic bid for the following year.

-- It also places a high priority on teams making a season-long commitment to the two respective ACO-backed series (ALMS and LMES) by placing the focus on the season points champions in each class....this set-up would keep teams from "cherry-picking" major events like Petit only to seek automatic bids....

However, it would be interesting to see a total of 60 entries at Le Mans sometime in the future -- say 3 or more years from now --(if they would expand their space to accommodate that many teams with garages, etc.) and ultimately to see the following:

12 total bids for the Le Mans Podium winners
4 total bids for the ALMS Class Winners
4 total bids for the LMES Class Winners
2 bids for FIA-GT, provided they meet ACO specs.

Make Sebring and Petit count double points toward the championships for both series as a Season-Opener and a Season Closer, and get the often-discussed "Offical Transporter" to handle these two races and Le Mans transport for teams on both sides of the Atlantic....

Add 8 automatic bids to the Mix:

Four class winners at Sebring...

Four Class winners at Petit...

That would be 30 automatic bids, with 30 additional invites available...

I don't think it will ever happen, but we can at least dream....

You could also call Le Mans, Sebring and Petit as the three parts of the "triple Crown" of the sport, with Le mans as the "crown jewel" get another big sponsor to pay out BIG $$$ prizes as the Official Sponsor of the "Triple Crown of Sportscars" they way horseracing has VISA for its "Triple Crown" sponsor and big payout provider...

One Other Note:

I think that Sebring Participation will be high every year, just because of its tradition as well as it's noted place in this sport as a great endurance test that teams participate in to learn something about their reliability issues 2-3 months before Le Mans...if you can "survive" 12 hours at Sebring, theoretically, your car should be able to withstand the rigors of Le Mans....

Petit may lose a ton of its luster as the closing test in the ALMS Season, but nothing more....

[billnchristy]

Horse racing's big payout is Joe Shmo Gambler who just bet the farm on a win place show for "Boxcar Willy" in the 5th...

[vandijk]

Originally posted by billnchristy
Horse racing's big payout is Joe Shmo Gambler who just bet the farm on a win place show for "Boxcar Willy" in the 5th...

Right!? :confused:

[Adam43]

Do you ever get a situation where a team lets its other car win so it gets two automatic entries.

[Tim Northcutt]

So...the bookies and/or betting parlors in London didn't take any wagers on the Bentley's last June????

Seriously...I think somebody would possibly sponsor it....and credit card companies would be as likely as anyone to do it...

[Tim Northcutt]

On AdamAshmore's comment:

that would be a very real possibility....but if they're fast enough to be up front with one another over a 10-hour, 12-hour or 24-hour period, maybe they deserve two automatic bids....

After all, you would have to be fast enough to be "in position" to have your teammate "give you the victory" wouldn't you????

And if I think about it long enough, I might prefer to have two fast cars get bids than have one automatic bid stay open because a certain car won two big races, only to have the ACO fill that empty spot with a stupid invite to "Team Seszionale's Flying Norma Circus" when they don't belong on the same track with their competitors...

Not that I necessarily believe in that line of thinking that I just wrote, but I'm just playing Devil's Advocate...

You open up a very serious question about automatic bids in general if they would be tied to specific races, like the 2002 regs did as vandijk has said in this and other related threads (LM 1000km threads this week)...

[Adam43]

Yes.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it. It just strikes me that in a lot of cases the being at Le Mans for the 24 is worth more than the actual individual race. In terms of exposure, fun and prestige.

[Tim Northcutt]

I would agree...and if I had the opportunity as a team owner or manager to get two automatic bids for Le Mans in that fashion, I'd probably employ that strategy to ensure it...

That certainly wouldn't disappoint my sponsors if I did it...two flying billboards at the biggest sportscar race on the planet has to sound great to them...

[Tim Northcutt]

Bids for 2004 Le Mans:

9 from the Le Mans 1000K in November (3 LMP900/GTP, 1 LMP675, 2GTS,
3 GT) -- Source: ACO in their recent "entries" announcement...

4 Class Winners from "Petit Le Mans" -- Source: Don Panoz on "Wind Tunnel" interview last week....

4 Class Winners at 2004 Sebring -- Source: Sebring's own Ticket Info mailing I just got in today's mail....

So...the 8 ALMS bids for the 2004 Le Mans that was referred to in the original announcement of the LMES and the LM 1000K to kick it off are for the Class Winners from last weekend's "Petit" and will be from the 2004 Sebring class winners....

Hope Sebring's materials are correct...otherwise, I've confused even more people....