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Old 25 Dec 2020, 07:51 (Ref:4025158)   #51
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Just out of interest what are you proposing they do? It needs to affordable, cost effective and interests teams/ drivers. But most importantly something mainstream fans will watch or go to.

I have no idea at all. It seems SC and motorsport in general is between a rock and a hard place to me with no appealing options. Open wheel racing which does not rely on basing cars on production models seems to be in the box seat.
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Old 25 Dec 2020, 08:01 (Ref:4025160)   #52
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The problem is really what you want long term. One day the ICE won't be in any road car and the question is where you want to be when that happens. Racing without them is a strange thought, I agree, but I think that's where we're heading outside of the niche and short tracks.
The ICE is the least of the problems, the platform of the large 4 door sedan is just about an extinct species and that is where the problem is. The 2 door American style coupe is most probably not far behind it as the domestic market is turning to the SUV and "trucks"/pickup/utes style of vehicle. Let's say that the Mustang/Camaro last another 6 years in production, that is only four years short of the predicted ban on NEW ICE cars being banned in the market place in some markets so it would seem to be fairly predictable that all new models into the 2030 break point will be entering the market earlier than that and no new platforms that were traditionally used will appear from the late 2020's. I am not talking about the ICE motor only the platform but of course the power train will be changed from those models as well.
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Old 25 Dec 2020, 08:06 (Ref:4025161)   #53
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What happens after that? Well, that's three years away that a decision HAS to be made and hopefully one will be made and communicated before then but it doesn't need to be now. As we start to see new models coming out (reportedly hybrids as well as electric only) over the next couple of years, I think that potential paths are likely to become more obvious.
That is the classic head in the sand stuff that has gotten the series into the cul de sac it is in. I am not bright enough to see a way out but someone needs to start thinking about this stuff now because three years time is the latest and starting the thinking process now is not too early.
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Old 26 Dec 2020, 05:17 (Ref:4025239)   #54
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The problem is really what you want long term. One day the ICE won't be in any road car and the question is where you want to be when that happens. Racing without them is a strange thought, I agree, but I think that's where we're heading outside of the niche and short tracks.
Sorry but ICE "not being in any road car" is a very long way off at this point. For sure, ICE ONLY propulsion for new cars is due to be outlawed in 10 year's time in some locations but hybrids are still allowed at that stage, plus of course all the ICE / hybrid vehicles already on the road.

My personal best guess is that we'll end up with different fuel types that will enable ICE use for a very long time, alongside hybrid, EV and Hydrogen.

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That is the classic head in the sand stuff that has gotten the series into the cul de sac it is in. I am not bright enough to see a way out but someone needs to start thinking about this stuff now because three years time is the latest and starting the thinking process now is not too early.
Supercars was quoted some time ago re the possibility of hybrid power, along the lines of the NASCAR model (V8 ICE plus hybrid). No doubt it is something that is being looked at (what the power units will be) but the point I was making is that none of us on here will be making those decisions and as the current platforms have a number of years of market relevance, it is too early to be demanding answers on the plan beyond that or to be predicting the end of the world as we know it.
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Old 26 Dec 2020, 10:57 (Ref:4025254)   #55
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Post WW11 Touring car racing in Australia originated with many of the cars being ex Taxis.
Cheapest vehicle you could get hold of to modify and usually not as old and rusted as other cars reaching their economic life span.
Even before the Geoghan and Myer Holdens there were Ford V8s and even more early 40s Dodge 6's.
Can someone look up the Mt Druitt records for a 42 Dodge with the then tell tale ex-cab paint job of black with orange guards.
They filled the need for cheap and frequently spectacular racing.
Tongue in cheek may I suggest we sart a series for ex-cab Prius.
Ticks all the boxes from a cost and tradition basis

I realise that it's a bit of an ego trip to quote yourself but having given it a bit of thought a series for ex-cab Prius is not quite as stupid an idea as it seem.
It taps into the market of people who want to race something cheap and think they can use their technical talents to make their (Postie bike, VW based race car, Gemini, Excel, HQ, old Commodore, add name here) go faster round a circuit than the bloke down the street.
More particularly it brings into play a whole new bunch of tech heads who not only fancy themselves with ICEs but have an interest in the software and hardware involved KERS, battery usage in mixed power trains starting at a basic level.
The next wave of Australian race engineers.
They could be the basis for developing the next generation of motor racing.

By the way the Mt Druitt 1942 Dodge ex cab belonged to Don Gibson. Not sure if he was related to later Gibson motor sport stars.
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Old 28 Dec 2020, 02:19 (Ref:4025472)   #56
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Sorry but ICE "not being in any road car" is a very long way off at this point. For sure, ICE ONLY propulsion for new cars is due to be outlawed in 10 year's time in some locations but hybrids are still allowed at that stage, plus of course all the ICE / hybrid vehicles already on the road.

My personal best guess is that we'll end up with different fuel types that will enable ICE use for a very long time, alongside hybrid, EV and Hydrogen.


Supercars was quoted some time ago re the possibility of hybrid power, along the lines of the NASCAR model (V8 ICE plus hybrid). No doubt it is something that is being looked at (what the power units will be) but the point I was making is that none of us on here will be making those decisions and as the current platforms have a number of years of market relevance, it is too early to be demanding answers on the plan beyond that or to be predicting the end of the world as we know it.
No one knows what the universal power unit will be but unless there is a break through in the alternatives batteries for all their problems have got the rail run to the finish line, at least for now. I suppose the next five years will sort that out, I can't see the manufacturers who are now investing huge amounts of capital for no return are going to abandon BEV's and re-structure all over again. They have made their bet and they are going to ride it out at least until they have made the ROI on battery power. SC going hybrid will cause additional expense and added complexity for no demonstrable result other than a feel good one. I too suspect that any change to electric is a long way off for very good and well known reasons. It should be all in for either one and not some half baked hybrid that effectively proves nothing. The problem is that SC have publicly demonstrated their inability or refusal to acknowledge changes that have taken place and the problems that are going to arise and will change things forever.

I have to ask you for your assessment of when the powers that be in SC have to put their thinking caps on and come up with answer to how they see things beyond the present cars now being used. The power train is a secondary issue that is already defined, sooner or later it will change for batteries, to dream about Hydrogen etc is at this stage wishful thinking.
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Old 28 Dec 2020, 22:34 (Ref:4025562)   #57
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No one knows what the universal power unit will be but unless there is a break through in the alternatives batteries for all their problems have got the rail run to the finish line, at least for now. I suppose the next five years will sort that out, I can't see the manufacturers who are now investing huge amounts of capital for no return are going to abandon BEV's and re-structure all over again.

I have to ask you for your assessment of when the powers that be in SC have to put their thinking caps on and come up with answer to how they see things beyond the present cars now being used. The power train is a secondary issue that is already defined, sooner or later it will change for batteries, to dream about Hydrogen etc is at this stage wishful thinking.
Manufacturers aren't only going down the BEV route, there are new hybrid systems in development as well and I agree that right now we don't know what the mix of power units and ideal outcome will look like - but it'll become clearer over the next few years.

That leads to the question on timeline for SC to work out their direction. Personally I think that the power train is likely to be the key point of decision - with the rest flowing from that. There are quite a few manufacturers still building and planning to keep building mid/large coupes, hatches and sedans but no doubt ideally the manufacturer preference would be to have similar powertrains in race cars to what they are selling.

SC has already talked about hybrids and from various statements made, is actively looking now at the future of the cars and what they'd look like etc - so it sounds like it is well and truly being looked at but I suspect that for the same reasons mentioned above, SC won't be able to make any final decisions until directions in the car industry overall become clearer.
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Old 30 Dec 2020, 06:45 (Ref:4025761)   #58
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The title of this thread is where is Motor Racing Headed, and it is understandable that it has, like every thread become focused on Supercars and it's offshoots.
I would suggest that the long term future of people racing one another in some type of vehicle is much more likely to emerge from the grass roots than from corporate, boardroom, or even professional race teams.
Finding somewhere to let off a bit of steam legally, and preferably somewhere that you can demonstrate your prowess at doing so, will always be the core of the sport.
This discussion should be about how we can ensure that the enthusiasm for doing so, and the willingness to do it in a safe and organised maner is kept alive as the motor industry as we know it goes through generational change.
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Old 30 Dec 2020, 14:30 (Ref:4025831)   #59
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I think BEV's will be a boon for club racing, not yet but in years to come. No oily bits in the driveline to cost thousands to maintain, it will be easy to ensure everyone has the same power output which is truly linear and the huge maintenance costs go out the window. If the ICE + Gearbox + Diff is taken away things can only get better.
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Old 31 Dec 2020, 03:59 (Ref:4025971)   #60
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I think BEV's will be a boon for club racing, not yet but in years to come. No oily bits in the driveline to cost thousands to maintain, it will be easy to ensure everyone has the same power output which is truly linear and the huge maintenance costs go out the window. If the ICE + Gearbox + Diff is taken away things can only get better.
what unique safety issues are present with BEV's when they crash? This is something never talked about yet.
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Old 31 Dec 2020, 07:58 (Ref:4025979)   #61
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what unique safety issues are present with BEV's when they crash? This is something never talked about yet.
Formula E would have those answers I guess but apart from that I wouldn't have a clue.

I have been racing and rallying for about 50 years and the idea of no oily bits to worry about and fix might make me return to the track. I simply got tired of pouring money into the parts of the car that will get replaced with an electric motor. The whole idea sounds like motor racing nirvana to me. On the other hand I certainly am aware that the fans don't like it at all but tracks like Amaroo and OP might have had a longer life if noise was not an issue and the fans were not impressed when they closed down largely because of noise but OP was always doomed for redevelopment anyway. Wakefield Park for all its isolation can still be heard in Goulburn with the right weather conditions and is not flavour of the month with some people who live nearby so I am told. Marulan always had a major issues with noise but most of that would go away with electric vehicles.
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Old 31 Dec 2020, 14:15 (Ref:4026070)   #62
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The ICE is the least of the problems, the platform of the large 4 door sedan is just about an extinct species and that is where the problem is. The 2 door American style coupe is most probably not far behind it as the domestic market is turning to the SUV and "trucks"/pickup/utes style of vehicle. Let's say that the Mustang/Camaro last another 6 years in production, that is only four years short of the predicted ban on NEW ICE cars being banned in the market place in some markets so it would seem to be fairly predictable that all new models into the 2030 break point will be entering the market earlier than that and no new platforms that were traditionally used will appear from the late 2020's. I am not talking about the ICE motor only the platform but of course the power train will be changed from those models as well.
Well in the Argentinian Turismo Carretera championship they still race with cars that are loosely based on cars from the late 70s. It's the most popular racing series in Argentina.
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Old 1 Jan 2021, 01:38 (Ref:4026188)   #63
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Well in the Argentinian Turismo Carretera championship they still race with cars that are loosely based on cars from the late 70s. It's the most popular racing series in Argentina.
Why not, sounds as good as any other idea but here the series has always been based on the latest cars and to do anything else radically changes the fan demographic. Perhaps bring back the Ford GTHO and the XU-1? Bathurst of the 1970's in the 2020's perhaps.
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Old 1 Jan 2021, 06:03 (Ref:4026204)   #64
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I could quote every one of Casper's posts, and the answer is "2 litre cars". Even the bit about open wheelers, when S5000 is not as big a deal down the track when the realities of racing set in.
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Old 4 Jan 2021, 23:00 (Ref:4026847)   #65
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the answer is "2 litre cars"..
2 litres is merely a capacity. 4 cyl? 6, 12, turbo? DOCH, flat crank, injection or Hybrid? Haven't even considered rev limit. And in what? Truck, go cart...?

You may as well just say 'cars is the answer'. But I'm guessing you have a particular favourite in mind.
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Old 8 Jan 2021, 12:53 (Ref:4027643)   #66
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2 litres is merely a capacity. 4 cyl? 6, 12, turbo? DOCH, flat crank, injection or Hybrid? Haven't even considered rev limit. And in what? Truck, go cart...?

You may as well just say 'cars is the answer'. But I'm guessing you have a particular favourite in mind.
Specific detail of regs are tailored to the economy and culture of the particular racing scene in the relevant country.
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Old 10 Jan 2021, 09:30 (Ref:4027925)   #67
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I could quote every one of Casper's posts, and the answer is "2 litre cars". Even the bit about open wheelers, when S5000 is not as big a deal down the track when the realities of racing set in.
Go for it, that should give you something to do for no return, at least from me.
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Old 30 Mar 2021, 06:25 (Ref:4043852)   #68
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Kinda fits this thread I guess.

Plans to re-zone Sandown as residential land have hit an initial snag with the local council.

Who knows? Maybe the track could end up being there longer than expected?
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Old 10 Jun 2021, 06:24 (Ref:4055484)   #69
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This will give you some perspective on where the car market is headed and we can only guess at the repercussions for motor sport. The sad thing is within motor sport there is very little being done to go with the flow. When do you think Super Cars should start planning for the future?

I just don't get how I am going to drive from Brisbane to Darwin in an electric car and any help on this matter would be much appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5GGCVIEYts
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Old 14 Jun 2021, 00:54 (Ref:4056291)   #70
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Development Application stopped due to new State Government developers tax.

The MRC has halted the Development Application process to rezone Sandown whilst it seeks more information from the State Government on newly announced "windfall" developers tax that would cost the club a couple of hundred million if it redevelops Sandown into a residential precinct.

Who knows where this may all end up.
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Old 15 Jun 2021, 01:43 (Ref:4056445)   #71
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Development Application stopped due to new State Government developers tax.

The MRC has halted the Development Application process to rezone Sandown whilst it seeks more information from the State Government on newly announced "windfall" developers tax that would cost the club a couple of hundred million if it redevelops Sandown into a residential precinct.

Who knows where this may all end up.
Never get between a developer and money.
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Old 15 Jun 2021, 05:50 (Ref:4056462)   #72
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This will give you some perspective on where the car market is headed and we can only guess at the repercussions for motor sport. The sad thing is within motor sport there is very little being done to go with the flow. When do you think Super Cars should start planning for the future?

I just don't get how I am going to drive from Brisbane to Darwin in an electric car and any help on this matter would be much appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5GGCVIEYts
1 Range will increase with technology
2Quick charging points should be as common as petrol stations
Unfortunately here in redneck wonderland where the government has decided resisting change and getting people paranoid about change is a political winner the world may pass us by.
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Old 15 Jun 2021, 08:18 (Ref:4056477)   #73
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1 Range will increase with technology
2Quick charging points should be as common as petrol stations
Unfortunately here in redneck wonderland where the government has decided resisting change and getting people paranoid about change is a political winner the world may pass us by.
Service stations as we know them were not exactly thick on the ground when cars first became popular and fuel dumps were common for longer trips. Here is some commentary on the coming crunch for manufacturers and ICE production. The video is a road test but he outlines what is going to happen in the coming years up to the banning of ICE sales while driving the latest electric Audi. Harry Metcalfe has some strong credentials for his comments and it is something I had not thought too much about TTTT.

https://youtu.be/q2jvFT2a7os?t=1159
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Old 17 Jun 2021, 07:31 (Ref:4056782)   #74
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2Quick charging points should be as common as petrol stations
It is becoming very obvious now that quick charging destroys batteries.

The stats say on a Tesla if you fast charge against trickle the additional battery wear is approximately 7% per year.

I guess if you have to you have to.
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Old 17 Jun 2021, 23:28 (Ref:4056905)   #75
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Its not headed anywhere, they just go round and round the same track
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