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Old 8 Jun 2018, 11:02 (Ref:3827635)   #176
chunder
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The decision made to axe Meeke was nothing to do with car development, it was to do with him crashing massively for many years on multiple rallies every year out of leading positions!
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Old 11 Jun 2018, 08:19 (Ref:3828299)   #177
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tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I am yet to see any footage from the last day of the rally, but I was following the final stages via the live timing and it was a great finish.

I was actually hoping Ogier win in order to close the Championship back up, but impressive driving from Neuville and Ogier. Both of them are fantastically entertaining to watch when they are pushing hard.
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Old 11 Jun 2018, 13:23 (Ref:3828409)   #178
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So far this season Neuville has been very impressive - he seems to have cut out some of the errors of previous seasons (and the Hyundai looks like a well balanced car). The Toyotas look quick but do seem to be a bit fragile - Tanak retires again after a hard landing and you get the impression Latvala is holding back a bit.
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Old 11 Jun 2018, 14:22 (Ref:3828421)   #179
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tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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So far this season Neuville has been very impressive - he seems to have cut out some of the errors of previous seasons (and the Hyundai looks like a well balanced car). The Toyotas look quick but do seem to be a bit fragile - Tanak retires again after a hard landing and you get the impression Latvala is holding back a bit.
Was debating about the current crop of cars with a mate over the weekend. We are both in agreement that the i20 is the best all rounder, but we are torn between the Fiesta and Yaris as second best. I reckon the Ford he says Toyota but, as you have pointed out, the Yaris seems rather delicate to me and the Fiesta doesn't seem to have had as many breakages this year.
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Old 13 Jun 2018, 15:40 (Ref:3828933)   #180
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leonidas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridleonidas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The big question for me after Sardinia is where do Citroen go from here?

Breen has had his moments but he has rarely looked like worrying the top drivers. Four and half minutes off the pace puts you in a different county in the modern WRC. The jury is out on Ostberg but it would be a major shock if he came close to actually winning a rally this year.

Perhaps the truth is that the Citroen isn't very good and Meeke has had to take big risks to get anything out of it. Yes, he has made foolish mistakes but the harder the car is to drive, the more mistakes you are going to make.

Sadly, it wouldn't surprise me if this is Citroen's last year in the WRC for now. With a poor car and second-division drivers, are the suits going to want to keep spending the big bucks? Or is Loeb going to be offered silly money to come back on a more regular basis? Who else can make that car a winner...?
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Old 13 Jun 2018, 15:58 (Ref:3828946)   #181
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The big question for me after Sardinia is where do Citroen go from here?
Back to the drawing board?

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Breen has had his moments but he has rarely looked like worrying the top drivers. Four and half minutes off the pace puts you in a different county in the modern WRC. The jury is out on Ostberg but it would be a major shock if he came close to actually winning a rally this year.
The driver policy at Citroen has been muddled at best - rotating drivers in and out hasn't really worked. Breen has been ok - but as you say he doesn't look like worrying the top of the timesheets, Lefebvre was shuffled back into an R5 pretty quickly as he was clearly out of his depth in the WR car (maybe he'll be back again now he has more experience?). Putting Loeb in the car was good for grabbing a headline but was always going to be a long shot for a result. Mikklesen obviously decided that the Hyundai was the better bet, Al Qassimi like Breen isn't going to trouble the front runner. Realistically they're going to have to stick Ostberg in for the rest of the season - but in that car he's not going to win an event.

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Perhaps the truth is that the Citroen isn't very good and Meeke has had to take big risks to get anything out of it. Yes, he has made foolish mistakes but the harder the car is to drive, the more mistakes you are going to make.

Sadly, it wouldn't surprise me if this is Citroen's last year in the WRC for now. With a poor car and second-division drivers, are the suits going to want to keep spending the big bucks? Or is Loeb going to be offered silly money to come back on a more regular basis? Who else can make that car a winner...?
Have you read this from Citroen head honcho Pierre Budar?

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/june-...8--12-12-.html

On the plus side he's saying Citroen are in for the next two seasons at least. But "We know that we have a good car" - really? The Citroen has consistently looked to be the weakest of the current crop of WR cars - hence being massively overdriven by Meeke in a desperate attempt to wring a result out of it. Even Loeb binned it. I think Citroen need to face facts - the car is a pig - if they can't see that then they're in big trouble.
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Old 13 Jun 2018, 16:15 (Ref:3828960)   #182
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Impressive from Neuville to snatch the win at the final moment and take maximum points to increase his lead. This could be his season
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Old 13 Jun 2018, 16:35 (Ref:3828974)   #183
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Have you read this from Citroen head honcho Pierre Budar?

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/june-...8--12-12-.html
Budar is beginning to look like a combination of Comical Ali and Corporal Jones. He can't be happy with the performance - and I don't think he has drivers with the experience to develop the car. Why would Loeb want to come back and tarnish his record by losing in a brick?
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Old 14 Jun 2018, 12:17 (Ref:3829265)   #184
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Loeb did well this year. The big problem at Citroën isn't the car, but the drivers.
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Old 14 Jun 2018, 12:41 (Ref:3829272)   #185
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Loeb did well this year. The big problem at Citroën isn't the car, but the drivers.
Loeb was quick but binned it - like Meeke.

The other drivers haven't shown the same speed but also haven't binned it as often.

Where do you think the Citroen stands in relation to the other cars? In my opinion the Citroen looks to be the slowest of the cars and the hardest to drive.
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Old 14 Jun 2018, 13:07 (Ref:3829278)   #186
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tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Loeb did well this year. The big problem at Citroën isn't the car, but the drivers.
I strongly disagree with this: I personally wouldn't class a fifth (two places behind Meeke) and a retirement after two stages as "doing well".

Perhaps I am biased because of the driver involved, but I still think that the C3 WRC is a dog...

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Where do you think the Citroen stands in relation to the other cars? In my opinion the Citroen looks to be the slowest of the cars and the hardest to drive.
...I have thought that the C3 looks a little less wayward this year, but it still looks difficult to drive when compared to it's rivals.
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 08:49 (Ref:3829603)   #187
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Latvala, Ogier and Neuville have questioned the decision to drop Meeke. Seems everyone thinks it's a bad decision, apart from Citroen
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 10:17 (Ref:3829632)   #188
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Simply put, he has been a crasher for his entire career. IN every car.

He has never managed to reign it in and I think the only way he can do what he did is to drive this way. Wilkes never got the same chances and he was the same as a kid. It is silly, because all you are doing is writing your own CV.

Duval was the same and lasted nowhere near as long, and Meeke should not have either. His problem is that to be on the pace of Ogier etc he is on and over his limit, Ogier, Neuville, Tanak are able to do it and still have some in reserve.

To not have learned that by now is the reason why he has gone, plus he must have been costing Citroen millions in terms of wages and cars written off.

I don't care what you say, it has been coming for a while.
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 12:05 (Ref:3829657)   #189
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Seems you are on your own here, with a personal axe to grind. Crasher for his entire career? Are you forgetting he won the 2009 IRC title? He did that in style, with several wins. And he is the only driver to have won several rallies with Citroen the past few seasons, despite the crashes. The other Citroen drivers haven’t been close
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 12:36 (Ref:3829667)   #190
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Seems you are on your own here, with a personal axe to grind. Crasher for his entire career? Are you forgetting he won the 2009 IRC title? He did that in style, with several wins. And he is the only driver to have won several rallies with Citroen the past few seasons, despite the crashes. The other Citroen drivers haven’t been close
Meeke is the only Citroen driver with wins recently - but even on those you could see he was on the ragged edge. You get the impression that Meeke has been overdriving to compensate for the poor performance of the car. The other Citroen drivers haven't binned it as often but neither have they had the wins. With the driver and car combo Citroen have I'd be surprised if they win any events in the remainder of this season (and podiums will rely on others having problems I think).

Over at Toyota you've got Tanak and Latvala breaking the car (and Latvala admitting he's now holding back and not driving at 100%). In that case though it looks like the car just isn't strong enough and the dnfs are as a result of fragility rather than driver error.
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 17:39 (Ref:3829717)   #191
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I personally wouldn't class a fifth (two places behind Meeke) and a retirement after two stages as "doing well".
I meant that Loeb was fast. At Mexico he won 3 stages and was leading after stage 13. At Corse he won 3 stages. The car isn't that bad.
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 18:15 (Ref:3829722)   #192
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Sorry, but Meeke has always been bad at dropping it.

yes he is on the pace, but with the downside we all now know.

That is simply too much to bear, remember he has previous form of being dropped and warned by Citroen.
People seem to forget that point
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Old 15 Jun 2018, 20:09 (Ref:3829757)   #193
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No, we just know the Citroen isn’t a very good car and Meeke has had several great wins in spite of that and the team slating him in public
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Old 16 Jun 2018, 12:11 (Ref:3829897)   #194
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
He was exactly the same in the DS3. Always has been, C2, 207, Opel Corsa, everything he has ever driven
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Old 16 Jun 2018, 14:27 (Ref:3830091)   #195
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So how did he win the 2009 IRC title then? Get over your obvious hate for Meeke
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Old 18 Jun 2018, 12:47 (Ref:3831628)   #196
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leonidas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridleonidas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Over his career Meeke has probably wrecked more often than his teams would have liked, but you could say that about McRae too.

Bottom line is that, even with the current Citroen, Meeke might just win you rallies. Breen might just get you fifth place.
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Old 19 Jun 2018, 08:31 (Ref:3831824)   #197
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I think on balance you have to look at it overall as a decision based around what they said, safety and money. He was very close to hurting himself and his pal in Portugal. Look at Mexico last year, a pathetic error.

Do you not think, that if they improve the car, Breen and others might get better results?

You could also say if they did Meeke would win easily, but he has only ever had one speed, and that speed means he has crashed out of winning positions many, many times. And would do the same with a better car, the notion that he only crashes coz he is pushing a naff car is garbage as he has always done it!

You have seen Neuville learn to temper the speed, Tanak too.

Latvala is always prone to errors, but not as big as Meeke. Ogier simply has pace over everyone as Loeb did.

Comparing with McRae is silly, as Col often was in the best cars at Subaru. Once in them he was better. But it has to be said DR was very close to getting rid of him as Citroen have him with Meeke.

The best comparison is Duval, and ironically, who got rid of him? Citroen. And why? Coz they risked losing the manufacturers title as Duval could not be trusted to finish behind Loeb.

I think Meeke has had a more than fair crack of the whip and I don't blame Citroen at all for getting rid. Yes it means they might struggle to win, but that is their call, they clearly feel it is a better solution than scrapping 4 or 5 million pound cars a year.
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Old 19 Jun 2018, 12:13 (Ref:3831863)   #198
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I would have few complaints if they had made this decision at the end of the season. However, you just don't get rid of a driver mid season; unless it's a disciplinary reason.

If Citroen are happy with safe 5, 6,7th place finishes, then good for them.....
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Old 20 Jun 2018, 09:07 (Ref:3832050)   #199
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tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Ostberg has secured Meeke's seat for the rest of the season:

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/1...r-rest-of-2018

Great news for Ostberg (I actually really like him as a personality), but I still think we are highly unlikely to see a C3 on the top step of the podium.
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Old 20 Jun 2018, 09:21 (Ref:3832053)   #200
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Ostberg has secured Meeke's seat for the rest of the season:

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/1...r-rest-of-2018

Great news for Ostberg (I actually really like him as a personality), but I still think we are highly unlikely to see a C3 on the top step of the podium.
That was the only real option wasn't it? I suppose they could have put Lefevbre in but they've already demoted him once so I guess they're not totally convinced by him either.

For next year do you think Citroen will try and lure Ogier? Or are they going to stick with Ostberg, Mikklesen and Breen?
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