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Old 3 Jan 2017, 05:31 (Ref:3699833)   #26
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Priced roughly where expected - pretty much par for the course for this type of jalopy out of Europe (or Japan with Lexus).
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Old 3 Jan 2017, 13:20 (Ref:3699907)   #27
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The QV is also top of the line.

There are lesser trims.
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Old 3 Jan 2017, 14:22 (Ref:3699924)   #28
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Priced above the equivalent BMW and below the equivalent Mercedes-Benz, with some very favourable reviews.
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Old 4 Jan 2017, 05:01 (Ref:3700052)   #29
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Priced above the equivalent BMW and below the equivalent Mercedes-Benz, with some very favourable reviews.
i wonder whether the options list will be BMW or Merc inspired!
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Old 10 Mar 2017, 00:04 (Ref:3717630)   #30
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http://apexnews.co.nz/alfa-romeo-sti...-in-supercars/
Alfa will enter if they can justify there investment to HQ seemingly
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Old 10 Mar 2017, 05:36 (Ref:3717676)   #31
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http://apexnews.co.nz/alfa-romeo-sti...-in-supercars/
Alfa will enter if they can justify there investment to HQ seemingly
How could any manufacturer at the moment justify a $10million spend on a local tin-top series, where the cars cannot be used or sold anywhere else in the world?
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Old 10 Mar 2017, 07:39 (Ref:3717698)   #32
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How could any manufacturer at the moment justify a $10million spend on a local tin-top series, where the cars cannot be used or sold anywhere else in the world?
NASCAR manufacturers pay around $30 million and look at what F1 manufacturers pay it's not really that unreasonable and i assume it would be on par with what Holden are spending
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Old 10 Mar 2017, 08:03 (Ref:3717703)   #33
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How could any manufacturer at the moment justify a $10million spend on a local tin-top series, where the cars cannot be used or sold anywhere else in the world?
The cars are billboard for advertising.

You rent the space.

If you want to spend your money elsewhere, you find another billboard*.




*Volvo SE being the extreme exception here.
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Old 10 Mar 2017, 08:18 (Ref:3717707)   #34
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How could any manufacturer at the moment justify a $10million spend on a local tin-top series, where the cars cannot be used or sold anywhere else in the world?
I'm sorry, but that theory flies in the face of what manufacturers already do - NASCAR, DTM, F1, LMP, WRC, WRX the list goes on an on. The cars in the series mentioned cannot be used or sold elsewhere in the world.

Ultimately, manufacturers will choose to come or go depending on a range of factors and I expect that those factors would be led by branding and linking opportunities to motor sport generally.

Whether we see Alfa or other manufacturers involved in the series will be a matter of "wait and see" for a while IMHO.
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Old 10 Mar 2017, 13:17 (Ref:3717748)   #35
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I'm sorry, but that theory flies in the face of what manufacturers already do - NASCAR, DTM, F1, LMP, WRC, WRX the list goes on an on. The cars in the series mentioned cannot be used or sold elsewhere in the world.
All of those series are either World Championships or markets with far more $$$ and reach floating around.

You don't seriously think a local championship on the opposite side of the world in a smaller market like Australia can command an equal $$ investment do you?
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Old 10 Mar 2017, 21:31 (Ref:3717894)   #36
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All of those series are either World Championships or markets with far more $$$ and reach floating around.

You don't seriously think a local championship on the opposite side of the world in a smaller market like Australia can command an equal $$ investment do you?
No I don't, but then the investment for Supercars is way less than the investment for those championships and series.

Supercars fits into the Australian marketplace at its cost level and is a serious undertaking within our market but to suggest that it is an equal cost to those other series - seriously?
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Old 11 Mar 2017, 23:51 (Ref:3718082)   #37
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No I don't, but then the investment for Supercars is way less than the investment for those championships and series.

Supercars fits into the Australian marketplace at its cost level and is a serious undertaking within our market but to suggest that it is an equal cost to those other series - seriously?
The point I was more trying to make originally that seems to be lost is how can a $10million budget be justified for this series, especially when manufacturers can't own the teams competing.

How have the required budgets been allowed swell to a level where you need $10million to enter a series that races only in Australia and a one-off in New Zealand?
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Old 12 Mar 2017, 01:50 (Ref:3718100)   #38
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$10mil would cover a whole program (the R&D, sponsorship, the marketing, the homologation fees, parts) for a couple of seasons.

You would think that after the first few years, the subsequent contracts would be a lot cheaper for the importer/manufacturer.
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Old 12 Mar 2017, 02:10 (Ref:3718102)   #39
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$10mil would cover a whole program (the R&D, sponsorship, the marketing, the homologation fees, parts) for a couple of seasons.

You would think that after the first few years, the subsequent contracts would be a lot cheaper for the importer/manufacturer.
Exactly that's the start up costs for the first contract it would drop off after that
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Old 12 Mar 2017, 04:39 (Ref:3718115)   #40
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But theoretically,
If the Supercars Next Gen is a cage in a car, then realistically the costs are down to the areo package and engine development. The actual vehicle base shape and platform have a standard size, re commodore witch had to adjust its length, short back doors,
then why would the cost be 10mil.

surely car manufactures have engines through out there range and/or now with platform sharing amongst a few European manufacturers, this would not be hard to come up with a suitable power plant.

If supercars are serious in going into this direction , then why make the costs so high?

Seems that they want a certain manufacture or marque , and not want to go like the BTCC

In the next ten years Aust will be over V8 cars.
Just look at what is selling .
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Old 12 Mar 2017, 06:09 (Ref:3718122)   #41
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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
$10mil would cover a whole program (the R&D, sponsorship, the marketing, the homologation fees, parts) for a couple of seasons.

You would think that after the first few years, the subsequent contracts would be a lot cheaper for the importer/manufacturer.
The story goes that Nissan are still paying at least $4m a season to NisMoAu to run their Altima program, plus activation plus the GT-R program plus whatever the custom tooling & build of cylinder heads cost plus deveeloping 3 separate aero kits etc..

It is a question of how much branding a manufacturer might like to see on a race car. Before this year, 888 won with a Red Bull car, that's what the teev bods call it, its what the newspapers call it, it's what we see on screen. Holden sometimes gets a look in, but the team was called Red Bull Racing Australia, and referred to as that for years...

If a manufacturer/importer wants a Kia or Alfa Romeo or Hyundai or Renault or Honda or Lexus or Subaru Supercar, do they want their cars known as Mobil 1 Racing or Shell V Power Racing or Bottle O Racing, rather than their manufacturer brand name.

And of course how many cars they want to support..

The thing that interests me about the NisMoAu squad is that from the outside, the car liveries (except #23) makes little reference to Nissan in their livery design, other than a windscreen banner.


$10m might be underselling it...
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Old 12 Mar 2017, 06:24 (Ref:3718123)   #42
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The point I was more trying to make originally that seems to be lost is how can a $10million budget be justified for this series, especially when manufacturers can't own the teams competing.

How have the required budgets been allowed swell to a level where you need $10million to enter a series that races only in Australia and a one-off in New Zealand?
Curious where your $10mill figure comes from but regardless any manufacturer will weigh it up. Toyota have the largest advertising spend of any car manufacturer here and last I heard it was about $65mill per year - on advertising alone, plus marketing, plus sponsorship etc.

If the $10mill you're talking about is spread over a few years, smaller volume manufacturers could see it as worth doing as part of their overall marketing spend. .

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The story goes that Nissan are still paying at least $4m a season to NisMoAu to run their Altima program, plus activation plus the GT-R program plus whatever the custom tooling & build of cylinder heads cost plus deveeloping 3 separate aero kits etc..


$10m might be underselling it...
For a 4 car program, so if a 2 car team on those figures it would be $2mill per year IF financed in the same way as Nissan's program. So it sounds like you think the $10mill is spread over a number of years GTR?

I wouldn't be surprised on the Nissan project - 4 cars, several major changes of direction on engine, several aero iterations - it has not been a straightforward program compared to say, Volvo.
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Old 12 Mar 2017, 06:31 (Ref:3718127)   #43
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For a 4 car program, so if a 2 car team on those figures it would be $2mill per year IF financed in the same way as Nissan's program. So it sounds like you think the $10mill is spread over a number of years GTR?

I wouldn't be surprised on the Nissan project - 4 cars, several major changes of direction on engine, several aero iterations - it has not been a straightforward program compared to say, Volvo.
$4m gives Nissan full car sponsorship on the #23, and supports the 2 'works' cars of #7 and 15.. maybe it should be more, and get the cars closer to the front..

And its been 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017...
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Old 12 Mar 2017, 07:33 (Ref:3718134)   #44
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The thing that interests me about the NisMoAu squad is that from the outside, the car liveries (except #23) makes little reference to Nissan in their livery design, other than a windscreen banner.
Very true, in the early years of the Nissan V8SC program there was more emphasis on "Jack Daniels Racing" and "Norton Hornets" than there was on "Nissan Motorsport Australia"

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Curious where your $10mill figure comes from
It comes from the article that LD2244 posted about ten posts earlier in this thread which sparked the current conversation....

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Originally Posted by Fiat Chrysler Automobiles Australia (FCAA) boss, Steve Zanlunghi
He continued saying that it would only happen if the FCA in Turin, Italy to approve a Ten Million dollar investment into the sport
http://apexnews.co.nz/alfa-romeo-sti...-in-supercars/
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Old 12 Mar 2017, 07:57 (Ref:3718136)   #45
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$4m gives Nissan full car sponsorship on the #23, and supports the 2 'works' cars of #7 and 15.. maybe it should be more, and get the cars closer to the front..

And its been 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017...
So about $2mill on the #23 and $1mill for each of #7 & #15 - about the current going rate for a season's naming rights branding on a VASC car.

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It comes from the article that LD2244 posted about ten posts earlier in this thread which sparked the current conversation....
http://apexnews.co.nz/alfa-romeo-sti...-in-supercars/
Cheers - so a $10mill investment in total by the sound of that, not per annum. Would include engine development, aero, activation including corporate hostility I guess. Not a small amount but not outrageously high either in the grand scheme of things.
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Old 12 Mar 2017, 08:05 (Ref:3718138)   #46
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So about $2mill on the #23 and $1mill for each of #7 & #15 - about the current going rate for a season's naming rights branding on a VASC car.



Cheers - so a $10mill investment in total by the sound of that, not per annum. Would include engine development, aero, activation including corporate hostility I guess. Not a small amount but not outrageously high either in the grand scheme of things.
Hypothetically it would likely cover start up costs and production and development of engine and other parts, sponsorship and corporate hospitality over a multi year deal it would probably be a 3-4 year deal for it to equate for the large sum he has quoted but that's only a prediction

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Old 25 Apr 2017, 01:05 (Ref:3729021)   #47
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Old 25 Apr 2017, 01:17 (Ref:3729025)   #48
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Old 25 Apr 2017, 03:02 (Ref:3729034)   #49
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