Bring them together - PLEASE

[Nordic]

Reading the threads about the JGTC, DP, FIA Gt, & ALmS all viaing for a slice of the GT action.

Does anybody else find it depressing that the various organisations do not sit down & come up with a common set of rules that could unifiy rather than divide?

This need not happen in one year, but over a couple, in fact however long it takes.

I understand that this soloution is very simplistic & about as likely as a settlement in the middle east, To many people would stand to lose a) power b) money, but can you imagine the line up of cars. If all the current makers remained commited and agreed on a 'pathway to peace'.

[Aysedasi]

Wise sage Homer, he say,

"Mmmmmmm Consistency.........."

[Truckosaurus]

Originally Posted by Nordic

To many people would stand to lose a) power b) money.

I think we have a Nail/Head Interface here.

[rdjones]

I have to agree with you Nordic it makes a standard set of rules would make a good idea. Remember that the FIA and the ACO have a standard set of rules.

[eddsc]

I suppose it's the same reason there was an FIA GT Ch'ship and then a separate ISRS/SRWC/FIASCC - and the two wouldn't come together.
Oddly, on the day the ACO releases its 2005 regs. (with some ACO specific items), SRO's Stephane Ratel announced an association with the JGTC.
DP manufacturers are not allowed to run their cars in other series.

[Nordic]

Stephane Ratel seems to have his finger in many pies, could he be working towards a common set of rules? maybe harmony is just round the corner.

It would have to make sence to the car companies, one of the major problems cited of the small grids is cost, it must be more viable to make a car that is welcome anywhere rather than just one area.

We do not need to think back that far to find a time when car like the 935 or M1 could race in just about any country in the world. While the IMSA rules where different from the CSI or FIA, the basics where near enough the same to allow the cars to compete togeather, (and they looked and sounded great).

[billnchristy]

I dont see anywhere that says DP owners cant run their cars in other series...other than the fact that there is no where to run them...

[eddsc]

You're right though, it doesn't actually say it anywhere, but an entrant would need the support of a manufacturer, wouldn't he? They're very different beasts, but an MC12 and a DP are both non-homologated cars, aren't they?

[billnchristy]

I dont see why the manufacturer wouldnt want to be known worldwide...

For instance...lets say I own a DP, I want to make it LMP2 spec and fit components as such...

I go out and win a race...dont you think the chassis builder would be proud of that...

Im sure officially the project would be frowned upon...but everyone wants to be a winner...

I dont think GA has a say in what you do with your car afterall

[vs346]

how much would it cost to change a DP into an LMP2 spec car? probably too much, and it would be so difficult, you'd be better off just buying a Lola and evolutionizing it yourself. would be interesting what the thing would look like though.

[billnchristy]

well the rules match up physical proportion wise...but...

The Dp is way too heavy for LM2, the only DP engine legal would be a porsche flat 6...

I think the only thing you would have on the rest of the field would be about 2000% more reliability!

[gttouring]

everyone wants unity, in open wheel and sportcars.... at least where it fits..
in North america, and europe, Pacific rim....

JGTC being an anomoly of "GTness". it arose as the Japan National battle ground for Japanese racers...and their cars.
As speed GT ro better Trans-Am came up as the US/Northamerican Battle field.

so no need really to blend all these- but splintergroups (touring car most obvious- superproduction, super2000, WtCC) and Endurance Prototypes and GT cars (ALMS,FIA GT Grand_AM,LMES)these are all variations of the same game and only broke apart to satisfy promoter and local power groups it seems (LMES/ALMS-ELMS was a geogrphical nitemare to maintain one point series though)

[billnchristy]

I think the best choice for joining forces...at least for LMES/ALMS and an asian series (though I dont think there would be enough interest unless it was just JGTC as GT1 and 2). would be to offer double points for the cross-pollinated rounds and the team with the most points would be "world champ"...or as stated before invite the top 5 teams from each class and series to a race track and have a championship deciding event...

To think they would all comply though seems unrealistic because some peoples heads would never fit in a race hemet!

[Asa]

I think the only car that races all across GrandAm, FIA GT, ALMS, LMES and JGTC with some success is the Porsche 911 GT3 RSR.

I guess at the GT2 level it is probable to unite them all; with some more effort, GT1 is possible as well.

But prototypes will be lots of hard work and probably no one will want the job.

[Liz]

Originally Posted by Asa

I think the only car that races all across GrandAm, FIA GT, ALMS, LMES and JGTC with some success is the Porsche 911 GT3 RSR.

I guess at the GT2 level it is probable to unite them all.

And as GARRA found out to their dismay, a race-tuned and prepared Porsche 911 GT3 RSR can beat their DP tronmobiles as if they are standing still.

Since that cannot be allowed (to the point where a 24 hour race had to be red flagged for five hours to preserve the frail DPs -- and THEN they nearly got beat), I can't imagine that happening.

It's kind of like the idea that all Christians believe there ought to be one Universal Church Triumphant -- but nobody can agree on which church it ought to be.

[Foster]

You start at the bottom (GT2), and work your way up. Get a small class GT3 for 911 GT3 Cups. 360 Cup's, and the like not, and you can really start something. When everything is set up, you have rules that should please everyone.

[gttouring]

this can go on forever, what really is the trouble is it money?
ah the human condition

[billnchristy]

Actually Liz, the RSR never was nor will be approved for competition in Grand Am, so no, no one has learned that yet...(DPs still 3 seconds faster anyways)...

Interesting development since were talking Porsches...

GA has allowed Variable Valve Timing on the Porsche powered DPs next year in hopes of upping the little 6s grunt and also lowered weight 25lbs.

The change has supposedly upped torque where the car needed it...down low...

Dont forget, those that cry for more power, that the Fabcar has consistantly had the highest trap speeds...the little 6 can definitely wind it out, and now it should be able to get out of the turns better too!

[richmini99]

I'm not crazy about the idea of unification. I LIKE that there are differences between the Grand Am/ALMS/SWC/BTCC/etc. . It makes for more road racing to follow during the course of a year. As Liz touched on earlier; it's impossible to get everyone to agree on one standard anyways. Besides; I don't think sportscar/road racing would be any more compelling. Has the growth of NASCAR and F1 made for better racing?

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by richmini99

Has the growth of NASCAR and F1 made for better racing?

Completely different growth, surely? (If you can call what has occurred in F1 "growth"........)

[richmini99]

That is sort of the point I was trying to make. Growth of that magnitude will gives us something we don't necessarily want. As long as the series I follow are able to stand on there own I'm happy. My view is admittedly a little selfish because I'm looking at this as a fan. I'm sure I was in the business of motorsports my answer might be a little different.

[GT1]

Originally Posted by Liz

And as GARRA found out to their dismay, a race-tuned and prepared Porsche 911 GT3 RSR can beat their DP tronmobiles as if they are standing still.

Since that cannot be allowed (to the point where a 24 hour race had to be red flagged for five hours to preserve the frail DPs -- and THEN they nearly got beat), I can't imagine that happening.

It's kind of like the idea that all Christians believe there ought to be one Universal Church Triumphant -- but nobody can agree on which church it ought to be.

Yea, I like the DPs but there is and will always be that part of you that knows that Grand Am had to SEVERELY restrict and eventually eliminate most of their classes in order for the DP to look fast. On speed they were usually matched by the GTS/AGT cars and were not as reliable as the GT cars.

When a series has to restrict a GT Porsche because of the "threat" it has to the top class, that can't make the top class look great.

I also am sore about the 03 Rolex 24, it was like the 54 won an extra long sprint race and not the 24 they either red flagged or ran so much under caution.

Sports car racing has always been so poltically motivated and everyone gets their way. The fans get confused because this class or that class or whatever and go away.

When the IRL/CART war started, fans and sponsors of respective series stuck it out for a while but when it became apparent that the spilt was here to stay and both sides were acting like children, they left and left in huge numbers. Perhaps thats why Toyota and Chevy bashed the IRL in recent weeks about the exposure vs cost thing and CCWS/OWRS (or whatever other name they have) has virtually no exposure.

The point is, the fans, particurally the viewer who just wants to sit down and watch a race, doesn't see the point and/or gets tired of the endless bickering, most of the time over things the fans themselves could care less about. And they leave.