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Old 19 Jan 2019, 06:44 (Ref:3877131)   #1826
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Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
The defunct Lotus F1 Team tested 18" wheels and the car doesn't look fundamentally different.

It might no look any different but I can assure you that the suspension and controls of it will be totally different. Read Fred Puhn's book on suspension and you will find that all cars are designed around the rim and tyre as a fundamental starting point of design. The geometric centre of the wheel defines everything to do with suspension.

https://www.amazon.com.au/How-Make-Y.../dp/0912656468
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Old 19 Jan 2019, 19:56 (Ref:3877214)   #1827
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Originally Posted by Casper View Post
It might no look any different but I can assure you that the suspension and controls of it will be totally different. Read Fred Puhn's book on suspension and you will find that all cars are designed around the rim and tyre as a fundamental starting point of design. The geometric centre of the wheel defines everything to do with suspension.

https://www.amazon.com.au/How-Make-Y.../dp/0912656468
That is what I was primarily interested in, rather than the aesthetics; shame none of that was included in that report, Pirelli issued.
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Old 11 Dec 2019, 18:31 (Ref:3946184)   #1828
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thought i would bump this...

in a rare show of unity, all 10 teams have agreed to continue to use the 2019 range of tires for the 2020 season.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...5o7v3e9GO.html

no doubt some may see this as another failure by Pirelli (and they are probably right in that) but i like it!

i am curious to see if they will also just bring the same compound selections to each race as they did last year? some races were pretty processional (either generating too few or too many pit stops) in 2019 and some of the worst races featured the hardest compound.

again, all things being equal, i would think that more data for the tires should mean teams will be able to extract more life from the softer compounds...if Pirelli opts to brings a softer range to each GP, then hopefully the teams will have the data they need to use those softer compounds more aggressively.
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Old 12 Dec 2019, 00:08 (Ref:3946236)   #1829
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in a rare show of unity, all 10 teams have agreed to continue to use the 2019 range of tires for the 2020 season.
I am curious as to the story behind the story. How did this potential for new compounds go bad in such a clear way. The comment from Pirelli sounds as if they were apathetic to the potential for the new compounds. They were perfectly happy to go ahead with the existing compounds! Maybe Pirelli wasn't a fan of change and botched the entire thing on purpose?

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Old 12 Dec 2019, 10:42 (Ref:3946286)   #1830
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When did agreement on a rule change go from unanimous to 70%.
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Old 12 Dec 2019, 10:58 (Ref:3946291)   #1831
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When did agreement on a rule change go from unanimous to 70%.
I think the different groups or bodies are being mixed up here.

As far as I can tell:

The Concorde agreement sets out the terms and conditions of teams competing. This is the body that requires 100% agreement before a change is made.

The 70% figure comes from the F1 Commission. Details of how this works can be found here.

An article relating to the new governance structure(s) can be found here.
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Old 13 Dec 2019, 12:18 (Ref:3946498)   #1832
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I think it's wrong for Pirelli to bring in something new at this time. They should wait for 2021
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Old 13 Dec 2019, 14:45 (Ref:3946530)   #1833
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I think it's wrong for Pirelli to bring in something new at this time. They should wait for 2021
I can't remember the back story, but I assume that given the complaints about the tires, that FOM and the teams asked them to make improvements. They probably said they could do something for 2020. Then there is a separate topic of new 2021 regulations (and I think the 18" wheel). I wonder if the left and right hands were not really in sync on this. That why bring out a new compound for one year? Maybe the thought is that this could be an improvement going into 2021 and that the new compound could carry over.

I suspect in the end, the teams are focusing on 2021 cars and development toward the new rules. Given resource restrictions that kick in, it's best to do as much development pre-cost cap as you can. So new compounds in 2020 would require teams to learn new tires for 2020 and the characteristics of those would change yet again as they go to lower sidewalls.

(Too late to make my comments short), but in the end, just wait until 2021 when the have all new tires. Don't spend extra money for 2020. And who knows maybe the tires were actually better (or not bad), but just different enough that teams said "no" to allow for resources to be devoted elsewhere.

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Old 13 Dec 2019, 16:00 (Ref:3946546)   #1834
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...Given resource restrictions that kick in, it's best to do as much development pre-cost cap as you can...
indeed!
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Old 14 Dec 2019, 00:36 (Ref:3946633)   #1835
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
I think the different groups or bodies are being mixed up here.

As far as I can tell:

The Concorde agreement sets out the terms and conditions of teams competing. This is the body that requires 100% agreement before a change is made.

The 70% figure comes from the F1 Commission. Details of how this works can be found here.

An article relating to the new governance structure(s) can be found here.
Thank you crmalcolm for the excellent articles.

Must admit Complicated structure!
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Old 16 Dec 2019, 12:52 (Ref:3946962)   #1836
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I think it's wrong for Pirelli to bring in something new at this time. They should wait for 2021
they've played an absolute blinder.

teams - we aren't happy
pirelli - ok try this
teams - NOPE
pirelli - cool, keep the original then.
teams - awesome!

thus saving themselves a lot of money and arseache.

people can bang on all they want about a tyre war, but there's only two companies in the world that could even afford to tender for the f1 contract and neither of them would be interested in seeing costs spiral.
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Old 17 Dec 2019, 22:18 (Ref:3947257)   #1837
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Think it was wrong to continue past 2021 with Pirelli,

if you don't want a tire war at least have someone who can create tires we can race on.
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Old 18 Dec 2019, 00:41 (Ref:3947265)   #1838
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but nobody else actually wants to produce the f1 tyres, that's the point. hankook are the only ones making an effort but reports from teams in their existing series suggest tech support is pretty lousy.
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Old 18 Dec 2019, 02:55 (Ref:3947274)   #1839
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Think it was wrong to continue past 2021 with Pirelli,

if you don't want a tire war at least have someone who can create tires we can race on.
The promoters and management bodies tell Pirelli what they want in the way of tyres so the dissatisfaction with tyres is best directed at them and NOT Pirelli. All Pirelli are doing is filling their contractural requirements. Why do fans keep banging on about it is Pirelli's fault? Personally I want to see a tyre war, get all the big names back in and let's see some unpredictability happening because that is what will happen, would that be a bad thing?
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Old 19 Dec 2019, 11:44 (Ref:3947520)   #1840
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The promoters and management bodies tell Pirelli what they want in the way of tyres so the dissatisfaction with tyres is best directed at them and NOT Pirelli. All Pirelli are doing is filling their contractural requirements. Why do fans keep banging on about it is Pirelli's fault? Personally I want to see a tyre war, get all the big names back in and let's see some unpredictability happening because that is what will happen, would that be a bad thing?

My standpoint is that if Pirelli are happy to produce this level of product on the international stage then what would they be prepared to dish up to the consumer. Formerly I have used Pirelli tyres, lately not so much, and as a rule I try and support brands that support motor racing. They put something into a sport that I enjoy and try and support them as a result.
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Old 19 Dec 2019, 12:16 (Ref:3947526)   #1841
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My standpoint is that if Pirelli are happy to produce this level of product on the international stage then what would they be prepared to dish up to the consumer. Formerly I have used Pirelli tyres, lately not so much, and as a rule I try and support brands that support motor racing. They put something into a sport that I enjoy and try and support them as a result.
then i urge you to look at their gt work, particularly in the national series. the sheer number of different sizes, compounds to suit each car... it's really interesting.

fwiw, market research suggests that f1 has done wonders for their profile. that's pretty much the main reason they're still involved - it's expensive but far better for advertising than anything else they're involved with.

disclaimer: i run goodyears on my car
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Old 19 Dec 2019, 14:29 (Ref:3947554)   #1842
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I have never used Pirelli tyres on my road car preferring Michelin for over 50 years of driving but I get why Pirelli tyres are what they are in F1.
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Old 22 Dec 2019, 14:35 (Ref:3948059)   #1843
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then i urge you to look at their gt work, particularly in the national series. the sheer number of different sizes, compounds to suit each car... it's really interesting.

fwiw, market research suggests that f1 has done wonders for their profile. that's pretty much the main reason they're still involved - it's expensive but far better for advertising than anything else they're involved with.

disclaimer: i run goodyears on my car
Much of that is down to TV coverage. Pirelli and other sponsors or series partners won't get that sort of exposure anymore, when it all goes behind the TV pay wall.
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Old 16 Mar 2020, 09:53 (Ref:3964470)   #1844
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going back to a discussion about f1 tyres being recycled, apparently they’re used as fuel at a cement factory near hq at didcot...

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...a-cancellation

tyres, particularly racing ones are really only designed to be mounted once to a set of rims. the more you take them on and off the more you change the structure and risk damage. so it makes sense that they’re taken off and recycled immediately.
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Old 18 Aug 2020, 09:04 (Ref:3996155)   #1845
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Its interesing to look at the differences between Silverstone and Barcelona interms of team performance and tyre life.
Both circuits have a lot of fast and medium speed right hand corners and the second Silverstone race and Barcelone were quite warm temperature wise.
In Silverstone the Mercedes powered cars and McLaren had difficulties making their tyres last with Red Bull, Renault and Ferrari benefiting. In Spain the tables were turned where Mercedes, Racing point and Mclaren all seemed to improve with Renault primarily going backwards. Ferrari seemed to be at about the same level in both races.
Some of the differences are down to the teams improving but there must be more to it?
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Old 18 Aug 2020, 12:02 (Ref:3996201)   #1846
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You mention Renault going backwards, but at the same time, they did well to make the tyres last longer
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