[Rules] Blown diffusers to be restricted from Spain (ESP)

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Innovation and creative thinking must be banned.

Spec series.

All the way down to the spec world.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Marbot

The pistons aren't rigidly mounted to the engine. And I presume that it's the movement of the pistons that provides the downforce.

How about this. On the inside of every F1 engine there are a multitude of surfaces, all sculpted and refined to ensure efficient scavenging of the bore. Including the top of the piston. This means it's an aerodynamic surfaces, which because it improves horsepower, is DIRECTLY related to downforce (more HP = faster = more downforce). Same argument.

Ergo, internal combustion engines should be banned because they have moveable aerodynamic surfaces in them. Electric engines are the way to go!

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by JamesH

How about this. On the inside of every F1 engine there are a multitude of surfaces, all sculpted and refined to ensure efficient scavenging of the bore. Including the top of the piston. This means it's an aerodynamic surfaces, which because it improves horsepower, is DIRECTLY related to downforce (more HP = faster = more downforce). Same argument.

Ergo, internal combustion engines should be banned because they have moveable aerodynamic surfaces in them. Electric engines are the way to go!

Don't electric motors have cooling fans?Fans to cool the powerplant were banned long ago...........

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

Don't electric motors have cooling fans?Fans to cool the powerplant were banned long ago...........

But they would usually be static fins, rather than movable fans.

[Flavio Galtieri]

It's probably the butterflies in the throttle bodies. They are moveable and in the case of a blown diffuser are contributing to aerodynamic downforce. If clever engine mapping keeps them open when you would expect them to be closed, under braking for example, then that might constitute a breach of the rules.

[Sodemo]

Why are they being forced to change it mid season and not just at the start of the 2012 season or something like that?

[duke_toaster]

That would probably be the logical option.

[Adam43]

I see the arguments for waiting until the end of the season, but does it really matter that much?

[Marbot]

Blown diffusers could face protest this weekend.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91554

Could be an excellent way for HRT to pick up some valuable points.

[Urgentemente]

It really is getting a bit tiresome
As already said, F1 is supposed to be the pinacle of racing, especially from a tech point of view.

It just seems like as soon as a team/teams comes up with a new improvement, somebody goes "ooooh, you can't have that, because it will disrupt airflow/melt the polar ice caps/cause the universe to implode".

Is it really going to make *that* much difference to fuel usage during the course of a race? Again, already said in other comments, you need to carry the fuel before you burn it so it's not a free improvement. Surely the difference in fuel consumption even if the entire field was running with these engine maps, would hardly make a dent in the amount burnt transporting everything around the world for 8-9 months of the year.
crazy....

[wnut]

This ban is aimed at negating the RB qualifying pace in order to bring Vettel back to the pack.
IMO it is biased, wrong and a Michiavellian scheme to penalise excellence.
If it was put into place for the beginning of 2012, no problem, but banning a legal innovation at this stage is just plain poor.

Clearly official race rigging is alive and well!
Ferrari clause?

[Sodemo]

Michelin 2003 Monza tyre anyone?

[Marbot]

I think that the main point about the blown diffusers is that they are now being thought of as a driver controlled racing aid, rather than anything to do with the extra amount of fuel used.

It seems that : "An exhaust system is there for the purpose of exhausting gases from the engine, so when you are off throttle it is not doing that – therefore driver movement is being used to influence the aerodynamic characteristics of the car."

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Michelin 2003 Monza tyre anyone?

This morning, Ferrari were told that they could not use their 'new' rear wing.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by Marbot

It seems that : "An exhaust system is there for the purpose of exhausting gases from the engine, so when you are off throttle it is not doing that – therefore driver movement is being used to influence the aerodynamic characteristics of the car."

I don't think driver movement is the issue. "F" duct wasn't banned for driver movement and we can remember drivers moving their heads so as not to intrude on airbox airflow.

It's the butterflies on the throttle bodies which are not being used to control power, but downforce.

And really, when you think about it, fuel burned deliberately in the exhaust pipes to provide downforce rather than in the cylinders to provide power is so against the grain of every "green" principle that F1 is trying to encourage it's really no surprise it's being questioned.

I really think more notice should be given though, every "instant" rule change must cost a fortune in man hours for every team.

[Marbot]

Virgin are running their non-EBD today!

[Steve Milward]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

And really, when you think about it, fuel burned deliberately in the exhaust pipes to provide downforce rather than in the cylinders to provide power is so against the grain of every "green" principle that F1 is trying to encourage

What was a very innovative way of gaining extra downforce is now being further refined by engine manufacturers. Therefore a device which was allowed due to interpretation of the rules is actually now in contravention of them.

[browney]

The question is under what rule do they protest/claim the cars are illegal?

Claiming that the engine or exhaust gas is a movable aero device makes a mockery of the rule.

I really beleive this is all because there is a thought that this will hurt Red Bull's qualifying pace more than anyone else. They can't know that compared to teams like Ferrari, Renault and Mclaren but I think it is probable that it will help Williams (who it seems like are pushing it) and the other mid pack teams.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I see the arguments for waiting until the end of the season, but does it really matter that much?

I think it does as it a major change for the teams to have to deal with part way through a season..

[slicktoast]

Maybe it is a di-stablizing ploy. The impending Concorde agreement process, the "breakaway series", etc. Now the teams that don't have it can protest those that do after the race. If they win, it's $$$$$ that comes from points, and disdain from the other teams.
Otherwise it is laughable, isn't DRS a driver actuated movable aero device?

[Rykard]

why can't they employ cleverer rule makers? Ones that can think way outside the box? Or loosen the rules off all together - as was suggest by Gordan Murray? a few years ago.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by slicktoast

isn't DRS a driver actuated movable aero device?

It's a legal driver actuated movable aero device. In much the same way that last seasons movable front wing was legal.

I think that the main problem with stopping the extra fuel usage now is that it is going to be very difficult to police who is doing what with their software. This is why it's not going to get sorted out until the middle of next month, when probably some other way of restricting its use (software or otherwise) may have been thought of.

[gwyllion]

Hispania plan to protest blown floors

This could backfire for them. If Red Bull uses soft tyres in Q1, HRT and Virgin might get within 106%.

[strider]

That's actually a really stupid idea as one would expect of Colin Kolles. The ban has been deferred until after the next WMC meeting in June and Charlie Whiting is saying he wants to get it in place by Silverstone, so I doubt that anyone trying to rock the boat before then will do themselves any favours.

[ghinzani]

Yes a bit short sighted by Kolles as F1 could just squash him like a gnat if it wanted. Shame as I like HRT, if only for the do or die efforts of the drivers and mechanics, team staff. Liuzzi I thought looked racey again today, and was rightly praised by the excellant commentary team.