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10 Mar 2011, 10:34 (Ref:2843305) | #76 | ||
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Gary Clarke |
10 Mar 2011, 11:00 (Ref:2843326) | #77 | |||
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I prefer to see the entry lists and in my experience it doesn't stop late entries... |
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10 Mar 2011, 11:10 (Ref:2843329) | #78 | ||
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John Smith Clerk of the Course and MSA Steward Race Director for 360MRC |
10 Mar 2011, 12:20 (Ref:2843359) | #79 | ||
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Gary Clarke |
10 Mar 2011, 16:53 (Ref:2843462) | #80 | ||
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I suspect that I might have been organising for rather longer than Claire etc and as Lancsbreaker points out the regional associations did/do have dates meetings to sort out dates for meetings in their region. These used to take place in July and the MSA wanted all the dates for it's "White Book" of fixtures by August.
It's really the commercial element that spoiled this. As as been stated circuits are more interested in the best income than in any interest in club motorsport. Thus sprints, rallies and smaller club meets have all been bumped off the fixture lists for most circuits. As I understand it the Bentley DC Silverstone meeting is the only race meeting put on by a club that runs just one meeting per year. 20 years ago or more there are many more. The date of the GP does influence a lot as it pulls marshals and more importantly rescue crews. In fact many smaller events (rallies and speed events) do struggle to get rescue units at any time of the year now. The BTCC and major rallies also pull in the rescue units, so until their dates are sorted it is difficult to sort dates for other events. I run a speed championship and a rally championship and it gets later every year until I can get the list of events out. The lack of commitment of drivers to get entries in can cause events to be cancelled. There have been forest rallies called off in the last couple of years because the minimum figures were not reached at the closing date for entries and the club likely to make a big loss. Then the forums were full of "I was going to enter......" I have no sympathy with folk who cannot commit by ten dates prior to an event. All the officials and marshals will have committed to that date months, if not a year ahead, so it's a poor show if the drivers can't. As I mentioned before I am sure the main clubs do meet to try and sort dates out. I do think this year will be a crunch year with too many meetings and too many races and series/championships. The sooner we get rid of the commercial orgnaisers and have things run by genuine clubs the better!!! |
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10 Mar 2011, 17:06 (Ref:2843466) | #81 | ||
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Martin Smith Clerk of the Course, 3 times Race of Remembrance class Winner Organising Committee and regs writer of ROR, Chair and owner of 360 Motor Racing Club |
10 Mar 2011, 19:36 (Ref:2843528) | #82 | ||
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10 Mar 2011, 21:29 (Ref:2843585) | #83 | |||
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I have to call you that, as you don't reveal your name . There are many points that you've raised and I think that your perspective of club motorsport is pretty much 'on the money'. Where I disagree with you is really in the area of circuit racing - I don't believe that is any longer the province of 'club motorsport' as you describe it, due more than anything to the size, associated cahflow and expertise required in a modern race meeting. You're right, I'm sure, that you've been organising motorsport events, far longer than Claire and I but, with respect, we've been closely involved in organising fairly big meetings which are, in effect, International events, with hundreds of competitors and getting (modestly) the highest accolades from the MSA Stewards involved. That doesn't make us clever, except in that particular discipline and (I stand to be corrected) that we do know how to organise and manage a race meeting....... BUT that's now a commercial as well as a sporting operation. Even with the 360MRC, on our 1 day meeting, we're juggling well in excess of £30k. This is hardly a 'club' event and we have no intention of becoming a club in traditional sense of the word - we have no input into a regional association and I'm sure that, in your view, we may be seen as a parasitic operation. We have a club committee in an operational sense but it's Claire and I who take the commercial risk. There is no profit motive (although not making a loss would be good!) - when we've recovered our losses, we'll simply reduce our entry fees. Why do we do it? Because we have a vision for endurance racing for the clubman competitor and we wanted to prove a point that we could do it! So, does that make us a commercial operation that you denegrate or a 'genuine' club? You tell me! Oh, and I agree with you about the curse of late entries but, at the end of the day, they're our customers - an ethos that we're very focussed on and which we think is our USP. The success or failure of our venture and the satisfaction of our customers will be the yardstick. We'll probably have to disagree but hopefully remain 'friends' |
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John Smith Clerk of the Course and MSA Steward Race Director for 360MRC |
10 Mar 2011, 22:38 (Ref:2843633) | #84 | ||
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Derwent, you may remember you and I disagreed on an MG forum when I said I wouldn't go all the way to Knockhill just to support an MGCC sprint, and we will disagree here again. The major difference between the commitment of drivers and officials quite simply boils down to COST. An official can plan in advance because there's fixed hotel and travel costs. A driver has that plus entry fee, plus repairing the damage of the last event etc. So that's why we can't commit in advance, especially in these straitened times.
Motor sport at club level should be organised by the competitor, for the competitors. The trouble with Clubs is they engender a level of bureaucracy. Suddenly the running of the race meeting becomes more important than the objective of the race meeting, which is for the drivers to have fun. Regular readers of my ramblings will recognise my soapbox. I hate bureaucracy. So nuff said. |
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Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
11 Mar 2011, 05:55 (Ref:2843752) | #85 | ||
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After reading through most of the post's on here,it's obvious that one issue is down to entry fee's? Problems arrise when there is a 'middle man' involved,you have a 'commercial club' who get someone to promote the event.The someone wants to make a profit,the point of being in business anyway,and the commercial club needs to make a profit as well? Resulting in higher entry fee's!.
One of the reason's the 360 is successful is because there is no middle man expecting to fill his pocket's,therefore not forcing the entry fee up to unacceptable levels. How often have we been in the situation of not actualy knowing if an event is on or not? Example being the 2009 Classic where potential entrants were holding back with thier entries because they thought there was a chance it would not happen! Three points of interest then,1] being that grids are/have been suffering because of the ever increasing entry fee's. 2] These increase's are brought about mainly because an organising club possibly doe's not have the capability of organising a big event so they have to bring in someone who can [hopefully] 3] Lesson to be learnt is simply cut out the middle man and organisers negotiate directly with the circuit owners as well as each other to arrange a years calander. Case in point is the other six hour held in Belgium,Alaine and Vincent have total control over which clubs are invited to hire a grid slot etc etc. They hire the circuit from the owners [just like 360 then] OK ,so there has been an increase in the entry fee this year but it is the first in three years which goe's to show that it can be done. |
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Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me. |
11 Mar 2011, 07:45 (Ref:2843776) | #86 | |||
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You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter! |
14 Mar 2011, 09:45 (Ref:2845355) | #87 | ||
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Here is a scenario why its not always possible to get an entry in on time and these £50 late entry charges are counterproductive.
At the weekend i was planning to change gearboxes in my black car and I have a choice of two both condition unknown so on the face of it you would assume safe to enter if I decided to. Well I tried to fit the racier one but fortuntely tried the prop in first to discover its a special build from GM (from the spaceframe camaro) and has a heavy duty output shaft s that wasnt on. Then I turns attention to fitting the M20 version but ran into a couple of snags the last one the links on the Hurst shifter need some modification but getting there but have ran out of time and I doubt I will have it done by Oulton deadline day Wednesday. These people have to realise we are amatuers in this sport not pros and amatuers working in a very different economic climate than 5 or 10 years ago. |
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