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Old 26 Apr 2007, 18:10 (Ref:1901098)   #26
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Thank you, Gregor.
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Old 27 Apr 2007, 08:33 (Ref:1901494)   #27
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I found another advert last night which concerns Mike Abbas Classic Cars advertising MG Metro Turbo 003 For Sale in late 2004 / early 2005 - www.mikeabbasclassiccars.co.uk

There is no sign of the car still being advertised on that website now, and although there is a section entitled 'Info / Sold' the car doesn't feature there either?

I do recall receiving a couple of emails from Mike at the time, along with photos and detailed specification and history files. At present this is something else I am struggling to find! Here is what I know about the car though...
__________

Austin Rover ex-factory works Computervision MG Metro Turbo Group 'A' Touring Car.

• Built new in 1984.
• Only 4 works cars built (3 works cars built for the British Touring Car Championships and 1 works car built for the German Touring Car Championships).
• This car being Chassis Number 3.
• Just had full engine rebuild by Roger Dowson Engineering.
• Full history.
• Build cost today would be in excess of £100,000.
• Full car is immaculate, totally original and pristine throughout - never welded or damaged.
• Can email vast amount of history / pictures / spec etc.

__________

Interesting to note the advert mentions 1 of 4 cars only!?

Here are some photos that accompanied the advert...







Be nice to know where this car ended up. I'll drop an email to Mike Abbas over the weekend, and ask the question. Will keep you informed of any outcome.
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Old 27 Apr 2007, 11:47 (Ref:1901606)   #28
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Those were the same photos used on the adverts for the one I saw for sale a couple of years ago. At the time I was sure it was the ex-Gaydon car, although now I can't get to the original advert to see why I made that link.

Does it say that it is 003, or is that an assumption? Looking back through the chassis numbers, possibly 002 isn't counted as it wasn't a turbo originally, meaning that this is the 3rd but is 004, the Gaydon car.
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Old 27 Apr 2007, 11:50 (Ref:1901608)   #29
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rcarr has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
That car was for sale for £35000! I remember it was advertised everywhere!
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Old 27 Apr 2007, 12:28 (Ref:1901633)   #30
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Thanks for your input Tim. This is what the text said on the Mike Abbas advert at the time...

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Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport
• This car being Chassis Number 3.
I actually copied and pasted the text into Word and kept it with the images that I'd downloaded - for posterity I suppose!

I saw what looks like the same car entered in a car auction at the 2005 MGCC Silverstone International meeting as well, but as I didn't buy a catalogue, wasn't allowed in to see it. I did however get photos of it being loaded onto a trailer in the rain outside - but I don't know if that was the seller's or the buyer's? I'll dig them out and post here later.

£35,000?
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Old 27 Apr 2007, 12:49 (Ref:1901644)   #31
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2005 MGCC International Meeting @ Silverstone...





...looks to me like Lot Nº 132 by the windscreen sticker.
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Old 30 Apr 2007, 17:02 (Ref:1903564)   #32
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Research

I've done a bit more research on these now, apprently there were three cars built, two to race and one spare one.
The car that Dad had (the ex-Colin Pearcy one) was originally Patrick Watts' car that was severely damaged in the big accident at Silverstone.
Roger Dowson re-built it and Colin bought it from him and results-wise I can only confirm a first in Class D in 1987 but am still looking.

Hope this helps.
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Old 1 May 2007, 06:54 (Ref:1903936)   #33
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Who's name is on the roof of that car?
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Old 1 May 2007, 07:25 (Ref:1903954)   #34
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Who's name is on the roof of that car?
Can't swear to it, but it looks like Harvey on one side and Robin Brundle on the other?
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Old 1 May 2007, 11:09 (Ref:1904089)   #35
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In BTCC 1984 car number 34 was P Watts, number 35 was R Brundle (above image?) and 43 was P Taft's Klaxon Neiman liveried example. I think he ran same number as he had in the Metro challenge.

GBRM when you say '3 were built, 1 as a spare' I presume you mean 3 Computervision liveried cars because at least 4 different Turbo's raced in 1984? (3 in BTCC and one in Germany).
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Old 1 May 2007, 11:32 (Ref:1904116)   #36
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Can't swear to it, but it looks like Harvey on one side and Robin Brundle on the other?
Which would tie in perfectly with what I stated earlier in this thread KA - regarding 003, which is the car we are talking about...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport
...but a 2-car entry returned to the ETC for the 1984 Silverstone Tourist Trophy meeting on 8 / 9 September, with 006 being driven by Watts / Rob Hall and 003 by Brundle / Tim Harvey.
...003 by Brundle / Tim Harvey.

I MUST find that original letter that I received from Roger Dowson himself, as I am positive they are all detailed on there.

'chunterer' - you have come up with a possible solution why there is more than one reference to their being 'only' three cars built. Perhaps this will go down in history as another bit of miss-information about the cars?
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Old 1 May 2007, 11:34 (Ref:1904117)   #37
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However, the two photos I have posted of Nº 35 being loaed onto a trailer, clearly show the absence of the quick filler necks which would have been fitted had this been a long distance ETC spec car.

It must be a sprint distance BTCC car therefore?
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Old 1 May 2007, 11:41 (Ref:1904124)   #38
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Weren't the long distance cars the same ones as the sprint cars, thus you'd remove the long fillers for BTCC duties?
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Old 1 May 2007, 12:19 (Ref:1904163)   #39
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Well the confusion so far possibly surrounds the subsequent history of the first 2 Turbos of 1983, 1 being uprated from a 1300 and the other freshly built.

I would suspect that one of these ended up as the 84 Taft car and the maybe went to Germany so that ARG/Dowson could run 2 brand new cars for the 84 BTCC? It would certainly make sense from a marketing perspective as the BTCC was the main focus so it would've been better to spend most money on 2 new cars.

I'll see if I can upload some old pics of the cars to add to the general 'weight' of the thread.
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Old 1 May 2007, 12:20 (Ref:1904164)   #40
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I doubt it Peter, as then they'd have large holes in the rear wings where the filler necks had been removed - see photo below.



Photo appears courtesy of www.racingsportscars.com
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Old 1 May 2007, 12:26 (Ref:1904169)   #41
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Don't know if it helps but attached is pic of the no 35 (Brundle's) taken in it's actual competitive season at Thruxton, Easter Monday 1984. Looks like it's either having it's off side rear wheel fettled or some other prep work.

The other pic is the sister car no 34 which was driven by Watts in 1984. Steve Soper gave it a one off outing at Silverstone in the opening round of 1985 and qualified on the front row I think??!! However it skated off the circuit on the opening lap thanks to some over enthusiastic efforts at wrestling the lead from Frank Sytner's bigger 635!! In this image it is parked in the paddock prior to the race.

I often wondered why it was entered and why Soperman was the driver, were ARG keeping a watching brief or more likely was it an effort to sell the car on?
Attached Thumbnails
Metro Turbo Thruxton Easter 84.jpg   Soper Silverstone March 1985.jpg  

Last edited by chunterer; 1 May 2007 at 13:15.
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Old 1 May 2007, 13:05 (Ref:1904204)   #42
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Very evocative photos 'chunterer' - especially the first one. Top man!

Note : Soper's car must have been an ex-ETC spec machine as the quick filler neck can be seen fitted to the rear wing on this car.

I have some information on this car at home, and how Soper came to be involved in the one-off outing. I'll post it this evening.
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Old 1 May 2007, 13:22 (Ref:1904211)   #43
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Ta, 'MGRS'!

Well I were only a nipper and these little buzzboxes utterly fascinated me as did the big class cars. If only we had something similAr as our national tin top series nowadays!! There's still an awful lot of relevant cars out there that would fit a Group A style category.

Back on topic, I'm sure I had a pic of Paul Taft's car at the same meeting too, but it wasn't in the album I pulled this out of. The wallets that developed prints used to come back in are in one of my families lofts somewhere but I doubt i'd be able to get hold of them soon!

I remember going to the '85 meeting with my dad when Soper raced this one (first ever F3000 race wasn't it?) and wondered what the hell was going on as had really hoped ARG would do a u turn on their decision to pull out and would get see him out in one of the Vitesses again as well as also seeing the Metros in Class B!

The Howley engines decals are interesting as is the Silver Shield logos, the latter was always a big sponsor of fellow Metro front runner Roger Jones and I believe he was once named as possible BTCC pedaller of one of these too?
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Old 1 May 2007, 14:14 (Ref:1904238)   #44
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Numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunterer
In BTCC 1984 car number 34 was P Watts, number 35 was R Brundle (above image?) and 43 was P Taft's Klaxon Neiman liveried example. I think he ran same number as he had in the Metro challenge.

GBRM when you say '3 were built, 1 as a spare' I presume you mean 3 Computervision liveried cars because at least 4 different Turbo's raced in 1984? (3 in BTCC and one in Germany).
The information I have is that Roger Dowson built three Computervision cars only, two proper race cars and one spare.

There could well have been four cars racing but not all built by Dowson. I would hazard a guess that the Paul Taft car was not built by Dowson but am happy to be corrected on that!!
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Old 1 May 2007, 14:34 (Ref:1904254)   #45
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Hmm,

So who else was building Grp A cars for Rover at that time then?

Clue: Soper was contracted to them.
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Old 1 May 2007, 15:01 (Ref:1904273)   #46
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Hmm,

So who else was building Grp A cars for Rover at that time then?

Clue: Soper was contracted to them.
Eggenberger????

No, as far as I recall, TWR weren't involved in the Metro build. I guess Paul Taft's could have been non Dowson built as there were a lot of good little one make/saloon prep people at the time who specialised in these sort of things like Boopspeed, Oselli etc. I'm fairly sure Taft's was from the same 'shed' as the other 2.

If it wasn't then whoever prep'd Paul's challenge cars, or maybe someone like John Maguire would be a good bet? Both from the Bham/Coventry area at the time.

Maybe Paul Taft or a Dowson connected bod could even tell us??!!!!
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Old 1 May 2007, 19:49 (Ref:1904476)   #47
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Clue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Mallett
Hmm,

So who else was building Grp A cars for Rover at that time then?

Clue: Soper was contracted to them.
I would suggest the clue is in the TWR Rover thread, but as I know longer read that for fear of upsetting people, someone else will have to look through it!!
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Old 1 May 2007, 20:23 (Ref:1904505)   #48
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Eggenberger????

No, as far as I recall, TWR weren't involved in the Metro build. I guess Paul Taft's could have been non Dowson built as there were a lot of good little one make/saloon prep people at the time who specialised in these sort of things like Boopspeed, Oselli etc. I'm fairly sure Taft's was from the same 'shed' as the other 2.

If it wasn't then whoever prep'd Paul's challenge cars, or maybe someone like John Maguire would be a good bet? Both from the Bham/Coventry area at the time.

Maybe Paul Taft or a Dowson connected bod could even tell us??!!!!
Going back to the info that MGRS posted on the first page of the thread, the Taft car was the original ex-Watts 1983 chassis, which had first raced in 1300cc form:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport
Two new chassis were built for the 1984 BTCC season - 006 for Patrick Watts and 005 for Robin Brundle. They contested the first two rounds of the series and then were joined by Paul Taft's privateer entry (002) from the 1 April meeting at Silverstone. All three cars competed in the series for a further 4 rounds until the team withdrew in support of the Rover Vitesse's exclusion from the 1983 series.
Was the Taft car run by Dowson alongside the Computervision pair, or was it farmed out to another team?
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Old 1 May 2007, 20:41 (Ref:1904521)   #49
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Originally Posted by chunterer
I remember going to the '85 meeting with my dad when Soper raced this one (first ever F3000 race wasn't it?) and wondered what the hell was going on as had really hoped ARG would do a u turn on their decision to pull out and would get see him out in one of the Vitesses again as well as also seeing the Metros in Class B!

The Howley engines decals are interesting as is the Silver Shield logos, the latter was always a big sponsor of fellow Metro front runner Roger Jones and I believe he was once named as possible BTCC pedaller of one of these too?
There's something else interesting about the sponsorship on the Soper car (that's the first pic I've ever seen of it...) Apart from Howley Enginers and Silver Shield, we've also got Herbie Clips.

As far as I can remember, Herbie Clips sponsorship seems to particularly turn up on assorted one-off TWR entries outside the main race programme of the time- (eg, the ETCC Rovers at the Brands GP meeting in 86, the one-off WTCC Commodore outing at the 'Ring in 87, the TT appearance of the TWR Commodore in 88 and Tom's occasional rally outings in Rovers). I've got a vague memory of reading somewhere that Herbie Clips was one of Tom's business interests.

So why have we got a one-off Metro outing by a works driver, with some sponsorship from a possibly Walkinshaw-connected company. Coincidence, just part of the deal to loan Soper's services to Dowson for the meeting, or something more interesting?
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Old 1 May 2007, 21:27 (Ref:1904544)   #50
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Oh my god - what have I started!?

I've dug out some cuttings from the March 1985 Silverstone meeting and this is what I have learnt...

Autosport 21 March 1985 states - We heard on Monday that Steve Soper would probably compete in this weekend's opening Trimoco Brtish Saloon Car Championship race at the wheel of one of Roger Dowson's rapid MG Metro Turbos. The car will not receive any assistance from the factory - Soper is, of course, a contracted Austin Rover Group driver - but he is still optimistic of upsetting the applecart. "I've done a 1m 39s round there with one of the Metros before," said Soper, "and I'm sure it's capable, on paper at least, of being very competitive."

Motoring News 27 March 1985 states - "It all started in the Kentagon last weekend," coomented Roger Dowson last week. "I still had the car, which is nothing to do with the works now, and Steve (Soper) reckoned he could persuade Howley Engines to build a motor, so we decided to do it." The car - a Metro Turbo - appeared at the weekend bearing allegiance to Howley and to Herbie Clips, a new type of plastic rachet hose clip, marketed by Tom Walkinshaw Racing. The deal is only a one off and sadly the practice promise remained unfulfilled after a screw fell out of the carburettor on lap two. It was all the more frustrating for the team and its temporary pilot when the hoped for rain materialised in mid race. "I could stay with them for the first lap and a half without even being brutal, apart from the balls up at the chicane on the first lap, and I think we might have won," said Soper afterwards.

Motoring News 27 March 1985 also stated - If a Rover pole was perhaps predictable the occupant of the second slot was less so for several reasons. The possibility of a Metro pole had been an indignity feared by many of the big cars during 1983 and the beginning of '84, and there were some who heaved a sigh of relief when Leyland pulled out, but here was former Metro expert Steve Soper at the wheel of Roger Dowson's ex-works car and only a second slower than Neil McGrath's Rover in the dry. Rivals knew that the 200bhp brick would eat its tyres at that pace over 20 laps but then of course the second session was wet, and Soper was nearly six seconds faster than anyone else!

Autosport 28 March 1985 states - Fastest of all in that second soggy session was Steve Soper - in a Class B car remember - hurling the blue projectile around with verve. "I'm not interested in a class win," he commented, "I'm going for it!" Gor for it he did, and second spot on the grid in a small class car is a tribute to that - a mighty performance.
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