 |
|
| Site Partners: | Veloce Books | OldRacingCars.com |
18 Nov 2003, 23:46 (Ref:1546458)
|
#1 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,379
 |
Brabham BT38
Confusing advert. A/S 11-5-1978 , BT30 and BT38 , brand new rolling chassis for sale , I think the adv. refers to only the BT38 as brand new.
Bryan. Last edited by John Turner; 14 Mar 2006 at 09:15. Reason: Thread breakdown alteration |
||
|
|
|
23 Nov 2003, 22:16 (Ref:1542449)
|
#2 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,184
|
I came across the following puzzle;
“1980 Robert Willis St L Brabham BT36, MidAm Formula Atlantic Champion. “ Ref. http://www.midiv.org/PDF/MidamChamps.pdf -page 6 I have posted a request for info on an associated MidAm forum, plenty of hits but no reply. Any suggestions as to which car this might be? Last edited by John Turner; 11 Mar 2006 at 09:49. Reason: Thread breakdown alteration |
||
|
|
|
|
26 Nov 2003, 02:36 (Ref:1542464)
|
#3 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,184
|
The MidAm 1980 trail has proved incorrect it was in fact a BT38. Many thanks to the MidAm guys for digging into their records for me.
I am unable to find any evidence of a BT36 in the states. so did Fred Opert pass his "ex Rondel BT36" on to Japan? |
||
|
|
|
|
17 Jan 2004, 02:55 (Ref:1542538)
|
#4 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,379
|
At Trois Rivieres, 1977, Cliff Dawson BT38 Hart BDA.
Bryan. Last edited by John Turner; 11 Mar 2006 at 09:50. Reason: Thread breakdown alteration |
||
|
|
|
|
18 Jan 2004, 11:03 (Ref:1542540)
|
#5 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,176
|
Dawson's BT38 is number 13
Dawson owned it for years, ran in Can Am with it. Car was for sale on racecars in last couple of years. Chris |
||
|
|
__________________
'Some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you.'
|
|
20 Jan 2004, 12:59 (Ref:1542541)
|
#6 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,176
|
Further to Bryan's brief note about Brabhams at Trois Rivieres in 77 here is the list I have of BT 38s in Canadian and SCCA races 1972 - 76. This is very incomplete for SCCA and 72-74 in Canada
1972 Eligio Siconolfi BT38 Barry Fox BT38B 1973 Bill O'Conner BT38 ex Rondel John Powell BT38 ex Rondel big accident Tom Klausler BT38 ex Rondel South East Asia 1973 also uses BT38 'ex Jaussaud' [Opert] this car also raced by de Adamich for Opert at Caracas, Venezuala 1974 Canada Michael Bystrom BT38 retained 1975 SCCA Chuck Dietrich BT38C 1975 Canada Bystrom BT38 Ron Rogers BT38 SCCA Warren Pauge BT38 -15 probably 1976 Peter Halsmer BT38 Cliff Dawson BT38-13 Anybody able to fit any of those into a pattern or offer connections?!! Chris Last edited by John Turner; 11 Mar 2006 at 09:54. Reason: Thread breakdown alteration |
||
|
|
__________________
'Some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you.'
|
|
21 Jan 2004, 01:34 (Ref:1542544)
|
#7 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,379
|
Chri.
Thanks for the BT38 and BT40 info. , so far I had managed to ignore these on purpose. However , a quick scan of F1R gives chassis numbers for BT38 cars , From BT38-1 for G. Hill , missing all untill , BT38-11 , thence through to BT38-28 in Euro F2 for 1973. I will happily take a correction, did I not read somewhere in period that the first 10 chassis numbers were allocated to BT38C F3 cars , if this is correct, can you just imagine G. Hill screwing up the system and getting his car numbered -1, as he didn't take delivery untill a fair bit after other cars , Dave Morgan had BT38-20 at Oulton Park in March 1972 , and Graham didn't get BT38-1 til Pau in May. Bryan. |
||
|
|
|
|
21 Jan 2004, 01:41 (Ref:1542545)
|
#8 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,379
|
Would you believe Euro F2 for 1972.
|
||
|
|
|
|
21 Jan 2004, 16:19 (Ref:1542546)
|
#9 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,176
|
Bryan
According to MN the Hill car didn't have a plate, although it was known as chassis 1. The reason it got to be 1 was that it was taken from the 38C series and converted to F2 spec. Chris |
||
|
|
__________________
'Some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you.'
|
|
22 Jan 2004, 09:05 (Ref:1542547)
|
#10 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,379
|
Chris.
Thank you , I wonder if every BT38 in the world without a chassis plate now instantly becomes ex Graham Hill.?? |
||
|
|
|
|
22 Jan 2004, 11:15 (Ref:1542548)
|
#11 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 838
|
Re BT38s, my recollection is that the first ten numbers were spaceframe cars and from 11 on were monocoques. Which may be the same thing as the F2/F3 mix mentioned earlier. And clearly the G Hill car would have been the exception.
Are we referring to all F3 BT38s as BT38Cs now? Or is that something else I've missed along the way Last edited by John Turner; 11 Mar 2006 at 09:55. Reason: Thread breakdown alteration |
||
|
|
|
|
22 Jan 2004, 19:45 (Ref:1542550)
|
#12 | |||
|
Rookie
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 81
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
|
|
|
23 Jan 2004, 00:01 (Ref:1542552)
|
#13 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,379
|
The factory sheets advise ,
BT38 , F2 , 1972 , 16 off, 21 gallon fuel tanks , 3600.00 pds. BT38B , FB, 1972, 5 off, 16 gallon fuel tanks, 3400.00 pds. BT38C, F3 , 14 off , 11 gallon fuel tanks , 2800.00 pds. All listed as mono's , spaceframe section rear of tub ,i.e. eng. bay. Mike Lawrence's book , quotes same production figures. Bryan. Last edited by John Turner; 11 Mar 2006 at 09:56. Reason: Thread breakdown alteration |
||
|
|
|
|
17 Feb 2004, 10:18 (Ref:1542602)
|
#14 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,176
|
Some more digging in Canadian race results for 1973 gives us the following update
At Westwood, 27th May 1973 BT38 John Powell [ex Rondel] At Sanair R3 we have the appearance of Hugh Cree in an unspecified Brabham, Peter Overing in a BT38 [not the Powell car] Chris Last edited by John Turner; 11 Mar 2006 at 09:57. Reason: Thread breakdown alteration |
||
|
|
__________________
'Some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you.'
|
|
7 Nov 2004, 20:22 (Ref:1542749)
|
#15 | ||
|
OldRacingCars.com
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,942
|
I've been working through this thread identifying Sprint BT38s.
The ones I can't identify are: Brabham-Cosworth BDE BT38 (1.8) - Paul Edwards 1977/78 Brabham-Ford BT38 (1.6) - John Hart Thanks Allen Last edited by John Turner; 11 Mar 2006 at 10:52. Reason: Thread breakdown alteration |
||
|
|
|
|
21 Dec 2004, 19:46 (Ref:1543480)
|
#16 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,493
 |
1972 Brabham BT38
In reading the articles in Motoring News once more I spotted the 'launch' piece early in February when the car was heralded as 'First MRD Production Monocoque'.
There were certainly some odd things happening with chassis numbers. It all seemed to revolve round the magical Carnet system. It appears that the Jaegermeister BT38 was allocated chassis number -1 because the team got the paperwork in first!  It also appears that there were TWO chassis turned out with number 15 on them - Team Bardhal/Motul used by Wilson Fittipaldi until his car was ready and then by Bob Wollek was the first followed by the John Coombs chassis that went to Ed Reeves after Morgan pranged his original chassis (20).  From MN I have gleaned the following: BT38-1 : Jaegermeister BT38-10 : Motul Rondel Racing BT38-11 : Motul Rondel Racing BT38-13 : Elcom BT38-14 : Motul Rondel Racing BT38-15 : Motul Rondel Racing (loaned initially to Team Bardahl) BT38-15(2) : John Coombs then onto Ed Reeves BT38-17 : Uniacke Chemicals BT38-18 : ASCA BT38-19 : Team Viking BT38-20 : Ed Reeves BT38-21 : Swiss Marlboro BT28-22 : Jolly Club BT38-23 : Felday BT38-24 : ASCA BT38-25 : Team Bardahl The question is which if any of the above ended up with... a) John Hart in 1977 fitted with a 1.6 BDA ? b) Paul Edwards also in 1977 fitted with a 1.8 BDE (Edwards also ran the car in 1978) ? 
|
||
|
|
|
|
21 Dec 2004, 21:59 (Ref:1543481)
|
#17 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 838
|
I haven't checked your list against mine, Steve, but can add 12, which went to Jackie Pretorius in South Africa, and 28, Chris Meek's Tate of Leeds F/At car
|
||
|
|
|
|
21 Dec 2004, 22:16 (Ref:1543482)
|
#18 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,493
|
Additional data
BT38-22 was bought by Frank Williams mid season and Tony Trimmer drove it at Brands Hatch.
|
||
|
|
|
|
27 Dec 2004, 12:49 (Ref:1542789)
|
#19 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,493
|
March 31st F3 Oulton
2nd Rd British F3 Championship
39 Tony Brise - BT38/Montessa Motorcycles 53 Peter Hull - BT38/The Motor Auction London & Derby Hull was the leading Brabham finishing SIXTH
Last edited by John Turner; 11 Mar 2006 at 09:58. Reason: Thread breakdown alteration |
||
|
|
|
|
1 Jan 2005, 23:02 (Ref:1543483)
|
#20 | |||
|
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 250
|
Quote:
"The ex-Graham Hill F2 Brabham BT38 has been acquired by Scottish builder Tom Ogilvy who will enter it for Tony Charnell in Libre events." Autosport 15/11/73 p7 Also, I am intrigued by BT38-13. Surely it is quite unusual for teams to allocate this number to a chassis and who was Elcom - never heard of them? Re BT38-12, this appears to have been sold new to Rondel Racing, rather than going to Jackie Pretorius. Pretorious bought it at the end of 1972 when Rondel advertised all four cars. In the report of the Cape South Easter Trophy race held at Killarney on Jan 6th 1973, Autosport states that Pretorious 'with the aid of Clover ice cream money, bought the ex-Pescarolo/Rondel Brabham BT38, which he fitted with a 1900 Smith engine.' This car was then sold to John Amm, who raced it sporadically in South Africa during 1974 and entered it in events until around March 1975. After that I do not know what became of it. Re the Peter Westbury (Felday, IIRC) car, this was advertised in Autosport 22/11/73 p57 as follows: 'Peter Westbury's 1972 Brabham BT38, which has remained unused since 1972, is now offered for sale as a rolling chassis without gearbox, making it an ideal basis for a successful hillclimb or Atlantic car. Spare (slightly damaged) tub and some wheels, tyres, etc available if required'. |
|||
|
|
|
|
4 Jan 2005, 18:13 (Ref:1543484)
|
#21 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,176
|
This is my version of F2 BT38s
/1 Tate: Graham Hill 1974 Tony Charnell /11 Rondel: Carlos Reutemann /12 Rondel: Henri Pescarolo 1973 Jackie Pretorius [ZA] then John Amm (ZA) /13 Francisci then to Cliff Dawson [CAN] first as Atlantic then Can Am /14 Rondel: Schenken/Beltoise /15 Rondel: Bob Wolleck probably 1975 Warren Pauge (SCCA: FB and then Can Am) /16 Coombs sold to Reeves for Dave Morgan when he bent 38-20 1973 to Tom O'Leary [Having been back to MRE as p/x for a BT40] [The reference to this car as 15 is a typo in MN I think] /17 Richard Scott then Alan Padgett [HC] AS 14.6.73 p.12 /18 Potocki/Jaussaud /19 Tom Belsø Still for sale mid '73 /20 Reeves: Dave Morgan Rebuilt after Ring accident Went back to MRE p/x for a BT40 /21 Silvio Moser 1972 Freddy Amweg 1973 Jorg Siegrist /22 Giancarlo Gagliardi->Tony Trimmer [Rothmans 50000] 1973 David Cole /23 Peter Westbury for sale Nov 1973 'unused since '72' /24 Jaussaud/Potocki, 1973 to Opert /25 Wilson Fittipaldi /26 Rondel: Carlos Reutemann /27 Nelson Todd 1973 Tommy Reid? /28 Tate of Leeds for Chris Meek 1973 Howlings [Croft FL 10.6.73] and to Richard Shardlow [HC] 1974 Alistair Douglas-Osborn Rebuilt by Pilbeam as his first? hillclimb car Unknowns and later 2-9 are I think FB chassis sold to Opert [two appear with Nick Craw and Bert Hawthorne at Bogota in Feb 72]; other 1972 Atlantics sold to Eligio Siconolfi [CAN] and Hiroshi Fushida. Barry Fox [CAN] has a BT38B 1973 AS 25.1.73 p6 "The remaining three Rondel BT38s have been sold to Fred Opert" These go on to John Powell, Bill O'Connor and Tom Klausler. Powell writes his off late 73. I don't know where BT38C F3 sit in this but here are the cars I know in appearance order. Don't think any of these become Atlantics in subsequent years. "first off" AS Peter Hull appears with Hull Tony Brise Debu 16.4 AIRO: Alan Jones Debut 23.4 AIRO: Brian McGuire Debut 23.4 AIRO: Alan McCully->Larry Sevitt: Damien Magee Debut 23.4 Ulf Svensson Debut Chimay Conny Andersson Debut 27.5 Vittorio Brambilla Debut 29.5 Chris O'Brien Debut 14.7 Ed Patrick Randy Lewis |
||
|
|
__________________
'Some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you.'
|
|
4 Jan 2005, 20:21 (Ref:1543485)
|
#22 | |||
|
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 250
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
|
|
|
5 Jan 2005, 21:02 (Ref:1543486)
|
#23 | ||
|
Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4
|
On winter of 1973 the spanish driver Eugenio Baturone bought the Brabham BT38/18 to Jaussaud.
Baturone raced the car in the Spanish Hill Climb Championship from april '73 to the end of the year. After that he sold the Brabham to another sapnish driver, José Teixidó who avec it the years 1974 and 75. Eugenio Baturone also bought (january 1974) the Brabham BT40/12 (ex Watson) and raced all this year and 1975. |
||
|
|
|
|
6 Jan 2005, 14:24 (Ref:1543487)
|
#24 | ||
|
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,176
|
That's very useful to know, because I had thought that Opert bought both the Potocki/Jaussaud cars.
Rafa - do you know much about Spanish hillclimb championship? I'm trying to find if Miguel Coarasa appears with a March 74B in 1974. Chris |
||
|
|
__________________
'Some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you.'
|
|
13 Jan 2005, 17:24 (Ref:1543488)
|
#25 | ||
|
OldRacingCars.com
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,942
|
I have another possible fate for BT38/1. The 'Osprey SR-1' 2 litre sportsracer built to Can-Am spec in 1977/78 was based on "an ex-Graham Hill Formula 2 car that a Chicago racer brought over from Europe". Could this be BT38/1 or could it be one of the older Rondel BT36s that he drove in 1971. I'm off to the BT36 thread next...
Allen |
||
|
|
|
 |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Brabham BT 2 | Wayne Mitchell | The Chassis History Archive | 169 | 21 Oct 2018 17:38 |
| 1972 Brabham BT38 | Steve Wilkinson | Motorsport History | 31 | 10 Oct 2005 22:28 |
| Brabham | Trimar | Racing Technology | 1 | 9 May 2001 04:31 |
Linear Mode
