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Old 11 Nov 2003, 15:09 (Ref:1607950)   #1
Dan Rear
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Chevron B48

Jeremy

The car Devaney had at Donington F2 a few weeks before that Phoenix race was a wide-nosed B48, ie like the B42. I think Rothengatter's Docking car had that nose too.

On this point the Gordon book says 8 B48s were made. I reckon 2 were works/Rahal, one each to, Trivellato for Stohr, Docking for Huub, Jochen Dauer (KWS ?), another works one for Gaillard, what about the other 2 ? Any ideas, perhaps the B49 was classed as a B48 in their records, even so that still leaves one. Far East maybe ??

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Old 11 Nov 2003, 15:31 (Ref:1607951)   #2
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According to the F1R,

01: Works-Rahal
02: ?? Listed in F1Rs index, but unless I'm going crazy, isn't listed in any race. So asssumed to be Dauer's??)
03: Rothengatter
04: Stohr
05: Listed as Rahal T-car at Thruxton, nothing more
06: RAM for de Dryver (possibly)
07: Listed as Rothengatter T-car at Thruxton, nothing more
08: Works (Gaillard, Devaney)

There was one raced in Japan by Team Phoenix for Fujita (05 or 07?). Dauer has a lot of DNAs up to Pau then disappears from the entries. Did he actually have a B48?
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Old 11 Nov 2003, 16:30 (Ref:1607952)   #3
Dan Rear
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Jeremy

I agree with much of B48 listings, pretty sure Dauer definitely had one, didn't he finish quite well in it at one of the early season German rounds, thats in the top 10 I mean, not any higher !

I'd forgotten about the RAM/de Dryver car, but it does ring bells. Was he entered for one of the F2 races in 79, he did Aurora with RAM that year of course. I must admit when I saw the entry (in a Belgian F2 round??) I suspected it may have been the B42 they had for Regout that year updated, rather than a brand new B48.

The Japanese car may well have existed, it would make the nos add up, since I'm pretty sure Rahal did have 2. I think this 'cos 2 of the 3 that came to Britain in 80 were listed as ex-Rahal, that is the Booth and Baker cars. I think Robinson had '08' which he used from late-79 , the ex-Gaillard/Devaney one that EJ used at Phoenix Park. I suspect we may never the whole truth, I guess the Bolton records were not that important at the time.

Btw where can I get the F1R records, are they on the web anywhere ?

Dan
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Old 11 Nov 2003, 16:45 (Ref:1607953)   #4
Jeremy Jackson
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Robinson definitely had 08, Baker had 05, Booth had 01. I'd forgotten about Baker's car. I guess that wasn't the Japanese car then.

OK, fair enough - Dauer started with a B48 (un-numbered (by F1R) at the Nurburgring in April - crashed after 2 laps.
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Old 12 Nov 2003, 12:40 (Ref:1607954)   #5
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Jeremy

The race I had in mind for Dauer was at the Ring in 80, when he finished 5th in the B48. Pretty good effort that, though I guess the Ring was always good at throwing up big shocks. I also noted, from the same source, that Robinson also finished 5th at the 81 Silverstone F2 season opener in, it says, the B42, though I wonder if it was his B48. Were you at that race, I wasn't but I recall it was very wet, Thackwell won in the Ralt Honda, there were a few other 'odd' placings that day. I think he (Robinson) converted one of his cars into an Esprit GT car, any memories of this??

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Old 12 Nov 2003, 13:21 (Ref:1607955)   #6
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I saw Robinson's Esprit (based on the B48) loads of times, tried to get to as many of those Transnational GTs races as I could. Can't remember when he converted it, i saw it first in 1983. He was in the B42 at Silverstone 1981, the chassis he used for most of the 1979 Aurora series.

F1R has Dauer in (possibly) B48 06 at the 1980 Eifelrennen.
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Old 12 Nov 2003, 23:47 (Ref:1607956)   #7
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All.

The Huub Rothengatter car B48-79-07 , with it's Alan Docking modified bodywork was used by Australian Andrew Miedecke at Macau , and had a pretty good accident in Andrews hands.
Car returned to Aust. damaged and bodywork discarded , the rest of the car inclunding Hewland FG are still in this form residing in the Southern Highlands of N.S.W.
Neeeds a new tub, otherwise everything is still there less BDA.

Bryan Miller.
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Old 13 Nov 2003, 07:07 (Ref:1607957)   #8
David McKinney
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07 was the car used by Rothengatter in the (January) 1980 NZ Formula Pacific series
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Old 13 Nov 2003, 07:34 (Ref:1607958)   #9
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Have also just noticed that Steve Jewell was racing a B48/07 in UK late 1980s/early 1990s. He also had 08, but I have a clear mental picture of the two cars parked side by side in the Thruxton paddock
Make of that what you will!
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Old 13 Nov 2003, 09:49 (Ref:1607959)   #10
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Chevron B48s

Broadly agree with what's been said about who had what so far, but the description of the Jordan car as a 'B49' might be sort of accurate. F1R is often inaccurate on F2 chassis numbers [witness the Briggs Chevron B42s in 1978].

Jordan's was the car raced by Devaney at the Donington F2 round. It had earlier been raced by Gaillard in Euro F2. It was built as a development car in late 78 as an updated B42. Patrese races it in Macau '78, then it goes to Japan where Rosberg uses it in Japan GP [March 79, entered by Le Mans co]. Then it comes back to Europe.

Brian Robinson owns B48-08 in 1980 and 81, but I'm wondering if that was, indeed, this car, or if it was another B48 that didn't sell.

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Old 13 Nov 2003, 13:29 (Ref:1607961)   #11
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Chris

Thats very interesting re 4 B49s, I've mentioned on here before that I'd always thought Jeffrey's was the only one. How did the Opert/Tolama cars go in the US, and were they in the main series there ? There's certainly no mention of them in the 79 Autocourse Top 10 results.

I'm pretty certain Robinsons car was -08, he debuted it at Silverstone in Oct 79 Aurora, and it definitely looked like the one I'd seen at Donington with Devaney, and that EJ had at Phoenix.

Should we assi=ume that Huub did have 2 cars in 79, 03 & 07.

David, re the Jewell cars, were they both definitely B48s, or possibly B47s updated somehow. Brian Turner in Monoposto in about 85 had B47-08, I wonder whether there has been some number transposition here, as Bryan has B48-07 in Oz still. Also, we ssem to think Robinsons 08 was converted into a GT Esprit, I accept it could well have been converetd back.

Very very interesting !!!!
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Old 13 Nov 2003, 14:18 (Ref:1607963)   #12
Dan Rear
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Chris

So as regards B48s, we're fairly sure that the works had 3, for Rahal 2 and Gaillard/Devaney (EJ)1 , though I think Gaillard had the 'Rahal/Ampex' car at Donington, when Devaney was in the one he (Gaillard) had used before( Not surprisingly these 3, 01-05-08, were the ones that ended up in Aurora the next year).Docking/Huub had 2, Stohr 1 and Dauer 1. That just leaves 1 car (06?) unaccounted for.

Last edited by John Turner; 13 May 2006 at 16:32. Reason: Chassis Archive edit!
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Old 13 Nov 2003, 14:43 (Ref:1607965)   #13
Jeremy Jackson
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The B48 under Robinson's Esprit in 1983 was 08, the chassis plate was still there. That car was used by Bob Nelson in 1984. Also in 1983-84, Paul Rhodes had a B48-based Esprit, whcih I noted as 01.

In Aug. 1984 Rhodes drove a white B48 in a Mallory libre race, didn't see the chassis no., but "said" to be ex-Rothengatter.

In 1985-6, Rhodes raced a B48, but this was either Robinson's car, or his 1984 car with Robinson's yellow bodywork.


Then there was this dark blue B49, driven by Peter Oxley at Mallory in July 1984...
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Old 13 Nov 2003, 16:06 (Ref:1607966)   #14
Dan Rear
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Chris/Jeremy

Blimey where to start !

The Rhodes B48-01 makes sense, we know its the ex-Booth car, I guess he used it both as an F2 and GT. I remember that Libre race, have the programme at home. I can't believe he would have had 2 of them so surely it was 01 in both guises. Unless... he had 3 chassis, 01 which you've noted as definite, the ex-Huub car by rumour, AND Robinsons 08. Would anyone be that daft to get 3 of the things.

The Oxley B49, I also saw at Mallory (we must have been following each other round the Paddock Jeremy, very weird !), I assumed it was a modified F3 B47, but perhaps it was the Hope Scott B49, I may have a picture of it, I'll look tonight.

Last edited by John Turner; 13 May 2006 at 16:33. Reason: Chassis Archive edit!
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Old 13 Nov 2003, 20:23 (Ref:1607967)   #15
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B48s
I have Paul Rhodes in 08 in 1985 - was this too early for the car to have been converted back from its Esprit configuration?
Or did Robinson have two 08s?

Last edited by John Turner; 13 May 2006 at 16:34. Reason: Chassis Archive edit!
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