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Old 6 May 2003, 07:19 (Ref:590561)   #1
Kevin Miller
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March 772P - 778

Dear All, my brother suggested I use this site to trace history of my March, hope I don't bore you with all the details. Sitting in my garage is MARCH with chassis plate 772-05 attached to monocoque tub 773:36. Bought by me in May 1999 off a guy in Australia who had done a deal with Garry Cliff (Magnum Motorsport) in New Zealand in 1998. Garry Cliff had acquired the car from John MacKinlay (Auckland) around Nov.96 and John acquired it possibly late '94 from Kenny Smith. The NZ advertisement (NZ Speedsport No.88) suggests it was an ex Riley car and it was called a 77B. However I talked to Brett and his father, John and the details didn't ring a bell with them. Also Kenny Smith was a bit vague, thought it wasn't the ex-Dave Saunders car but possibly the ex-Giltrap car. That is about all I know of NZ history. Then there is the European history!! It is well documented that 772-05 (with tub 772:05) was the Hart powered car that Giacomelli drove in the first four races in 1977. According to Duncan R. records my tub,(773:36) was in 77B-16 being tested at Silverston on 15/2/77 with a BMW and FT200. This package was rebadged? as the first '77 prototype 772P-U1. This prototype does the first four races with P.Neve, A.Ribeiro and J.Mass as drivers. Come Vallelunga May 15th Giacomelli gets to drive the P car and Alex Ribeiro gets stuck with 772-05(slower). According to Autosport May 19 pg.40 race report about the P car and I quote 'This was not the same chassis that had won the previous two races in the hands of Jochen Mass. After its Nurburgring victory it was found (literally) to be falling apart at the seams, especially around the rear bulkhead, so a completely new chassis was built with a stronger monocoque, a revised F1-type nose subframe and strengthened bulkheads' etc. etc. Another Autosport report June 2 pg.3 suggest that there is a rift between Ribeiro and March, although March deny it. However Ribiero goes on to drive a Chevron on June 26. I can only assume it is because he got to drive the slower wide bodied car and was not happy. So, after Vallelunga we seem to have tub 773:36 and wide bodied 772-05 both sitting forlornly in the March factory (772-05 does not sufface again in '77). Giacomelli goes on for the rest of the season in the prototype U1. My theory is that March build up another prototype (spare?) using the reglued/rerivetted 773:36 tub and all the F2 mechanicals off 772-05 (possibly for Giacomelli) and this is why I have this combination in my garage. I can find no mention of a second protoype being built, however, miraculously a second one appears at Donington on Oct 30 with Marc Surer as driver. Alex Ribeiro has been put back in U1 while Giacomelli moves on to the 782 prototype for this final race of the season. 772-05 appears again in 1978 with Sergio Mangotti listed as the driver at Nurburgring and Mugello. I would love to see a photo at this time to check if it is the wide bodied tub or the narrow sidepod P configuration. I have no information between the 1978 appearance and the mid 90's recent history. Can any of you guys out there shed some light on this little problem. One other minor clue is that on one of the spun rear rims (composite wheels) is written Shierson's name. Possibly tagged with a name while being repaired? Any info will be gratefully accepted. Hopefully attached is a photo of the car in NZ sometime in mid '90s.
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Old 6 May 2003, 18:45 (Ref:591278)   #2
Chris Townsend
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Kevin

Welcome! My understanding of the 772/772P issue was that March tubs changed design radically with the 75 model and that the 772 had much in common with that. To get back to a slimmer line I thought they used a 742 tub, but clearly not.
Certainly a number of 742s ended up in the narrow pod configuration in the late 70s, mimicking what the factory had done with their cars. [I remember Carlo Giorgio running like this, and the Richard Jones 742.]

However, if you are thinking that 772-05 as raced by Mingotti in 78 is your car with the narrow tub and pods, as raced by Surer at Donington 77 that's not the case.
Both the 772Ps have post March history.U1 goes to Norman Dickson and is raced in both 78 and 79 in the Aurora AFX series [in 79 it's driven by Brancatelli and Pascal Witmeur rather than Dickson].
The Surer car, called U2 by F1R, is sold to Patsy McGarrity for Atlantic racing in Ireland in 78 then comes back to England in 79 where Kim Mather and Mike Wilds race it, with Pontins sponsorship in the Aurora series.
So U2 can't be the Mingotti car with a 772-5 plate and a different tub.
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Old 7 May 2003, 04:15 (Ref:591870)   #3
Bryan Miller
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Chris, I think we may have another mess here .

In front of me I have ex. D.R. 13/12/02 the following ,

77B-16
B.M.W. F2
White
Monocoque no. 773-36
Gearbox no. FT200-1147
Test Car .
First run at Silverstone 15th. February 1977
Chassis no. changed to 772P-U1


If 772P-U1 goes to Norman Dickson etc. how come the tub. 773-36 is still in Kevin,s car .??????????????
Bryan.
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Old 25 May 2004, 15:34 (Ref:1696476)   #4
Dan Rear
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March 772P - 778

On this subject, anyone anything further on the de Dryver 1977 F2 March. Described as a "778", or maybe that was a misprint for "77B". Whatever, it looked pretty similar to the 772Ps that year. IIRC Bill Gubelman was invloved with the team that year, was it a new one built on an old tub of his ??
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Old 7 Dec 2004, 10:56 (Ref:1696586)   #5
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March 722P post race history

For information:

March 772P-U2 is currently in the hands of Jonathan Varley and is fitted with a 1.6 BDA. Jonathan continues to sprint and hillclimb the car.
Its previous owner was Alan Newton who had fitted a couple of different engine choices. Initially Alan ran it with the Formula Two 6 cylinder Abarth two litre unit. This was then replaced with a 3.5 litre Cosworth DFR. Before he sold the car as a roller to Jonathan.
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Old 9 Jun 2006, 17:12 (Ref:1696601)   #6
Dan Rear
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Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson
For information:

March 772P-U2 is currently in the hands of Jonathan Varley and is fitted with a 1.6 BDA. Jonathan continues to sprint and hillclimb the car.
Its previous owner was Alan Newton who had fitted a couple of different engine choices. Initially Alan ran it with the Formula Two 6 cylinder Abarth two litre unit. This was then replaced with a 3.5 litre Cosworth DFR. Before he sold the car as a roller to Jonathan.
772P-U2 was, I'm pretty sure, the 2nd 'real' 772P built. Only used once in 77 by the works, for marc Surer at the October Donny meeting. -U1 was the regular car used by Neve, then Ribeiro, Mass and Bruno.

For 1978 -U1 goes to Norman D for F2/Libre/Aurora, then into the Scottish Libre/Climbing scene. -U2 goes to Patsy McG for Irish FAt, then Kim Mather for Aurora. Kim says he's recently seen it adverted in the UK.
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Old 12 Jun 2006, 10:33 (Ref:1696602)   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Rear
772P-U2 was, I'm pretty sure, the 2nd 'real' 772P built. Only used once in 77 by the works, for marc Surer at the October Donny meeting. -U1 was the regular car used by Neve, then Ribeiro, Mass and Bruno.
For 1978 -U1 goes to Norman D for F2/Libre/Aurora, then into the Scottish Libre/Climbing scene. -U2 goes to Patsy McG for Irish FAt, then Kim Mather for Aurora. Kim says he's recently seen it adverted in the UK.
I wasn't aware Jonathan Varley was selling -U2, I was chatting to him at the week-end and he never mentioned he was selling. Are you sure it wasn't -U1 that was for sale?

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Old 12 Jun 2006, 12:06 (Ref:1696603)   #8
Dan Rear
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Steve, Kim just said he'd seen 'my old March' advertised, I presume he meant his 772P, which was -U2.
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Old 16 Jul 2006, 22:31 (Ref:1696610)   #9
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772p u2 is allegedly in Canada being restored; he bought it as a basket case.
772p u is in UK with John Holmes.

Last edited by John Turner; 29 Aug 2006 at 15:59. Reason: Chassis Archive edit!
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Old 17 Jul 2006, 13:15 (Ref:1658146)   #10
Dan Rear
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Where does the Bernard de D '778' fit into all this? A new 77B tub maybe with a 2-litre motor, that pre-dated the works take on these matters - much like the Beuttler '721G'... And where did that car, ie the 778, go after 1977??
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Old 25 Aug 2006, 17:02 (Ref:1691551)   #11
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We've also discussed the Crompton 772P on a few occasions. I spotted two references to it in Autosport.

1) Autosport 10 Aug 1978 p45. Godfrey Crompton has bought a "newly built March 772P from Peter Bloore". He also bought a 762 from MRE for its Hart and sold the 762 on to Turnbull.

2) Autosport 6 Sep 1978 p54. Tony Westwood is mentioned going well at Prescott in his "ex Godfrey Crompton March 77P".

Crompton clearly had cash so I doubt he would have bought some old bitza from Bloore. As it's more likely to have been built from new components, I've tentatively given this third 772P an identity of 772P ['B'].

Allen
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Old 25 Aug 2006, 17:27 (Ref:1696669)   #12
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Allen, I think you're right to have a 3rd 772P car, although only 2 were built for the factory BMW team.
One is in UK, DBT racing, and one has appeared in Canada as a resto. project, but I think there are 2 cars with the same tag#. It would not be difficult to create a 772p as it is a narrow tub chassis car with std March parts fitted; it all depends on the tub front being flat or a slope and how steep!!

Last edited by John Turner; 29 Aug 2006 at 16:10. Reason: Chassis Archive edit!
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Old 25 Aug 2006, 19:31 (Ref:1696676)   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbrown
We've also discussed the Crompton 772P on a few occasions. I spotted two references to it in Autosport.

1) Autosport 10 Aug 1978 p45. Godfrey Crompton has bought a "newly built March 772P from Peter Bloore". He also bought a 762 from MRE for its Hart and sold the 762 on to Turnbull.

2) Autosport 6 Sep 1978 p54. Tony Westwood is mentioned going well at Prescott in his "ex Godfrey Crompton March 77P".

Crompton clearly had cash so I doubt he would have bought some old bitza from Bloore. As it's more likely to have been built from new components, I've tentatively given this third 772P an identity of 772P ['B'].

Allen
As Westwood is one of the missing chassis numbers from the sprint championship records how are you actually going to record this 'third' 772P?

772P 'B'

or

772P-'B'

Thanks.
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Old 25 Aug 2006, 20:02 (Ref:1696681)   #14
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Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson
As Westwood is one of the missing chassis numbers from the sprint championship records how are you actually going to record this 'third' 772P?

772P 'B'

or

772P-'B'

Thanks.
Either I guess. The chassis number would be 'B' the same way F1R allocated 'P1' to a Parnell-built Lotus 24. I'm getting braver about allocating identities to 'extra' cars as if we don't do it, who will? But I only do it if I'm confident the car wasn't built out of something older.

You may have noticed that I'm moving away from using dashes or obliques to separate chassis numbers to using square brackets. I've done this mainly because it's hard to tell whether March 722/32 is March 722 chassis number 32 or an unknown March 722 upgraded to 732 spec. Ditto Chevron B25/7 and so on. It was never a problem on F1 cars when I started my system but the production cars cause all sorts of problems. So where you'd use 772-6/782 for Ted Williams' car, I'd now use 772/782 [6].

I hope drifty will excuse the anoracs discussing such minutiae.
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Old 25 Aug 2006, 20:03 (Ref:1691682)   #15
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Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson
If that is the case then I suspect the reporter may have been inferring that it was the first time at that venue or even the first time he had seen the car!
OK, I'll go look it up again and give you chapter and verse.
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