Rambling discussion on what it costs to rally/rallyx (was the George Tracey thread)

M.Lowe · 23 Jun 2005, 21:52 (Ref:1338730)

Tum te tum tum tum
Didnt I say he was in talks a while ago while in Sweden

peespeed · 23 Jun 2005, 22:53 (Ref:1338811)

All he needs now is a 205T16 for the full compliment of Peugeot Supercars

Cryos · 24 Jun 2005, 14:29 (Ref:1339250)

hmm good good!! Motorsport In ireland definatly aint on a downturn !

pitty the british motorsport scene is a bit (quote)saturated(/quote) atm

** Quoting Safety Devices Administration Reasoning Released a few days ago

chunder · 24 Jun 2005, 17:49 (Ref:1339375)

Please, please tell me where this guy gets his mone from! That car must cost not far short of half a million quid, on top of the 306 and the 206 he has the guy must be a multi millionaire!
I have not heard of anyone usin customer 307s yet ad the back up you need to run one is amazing, hence why no one ever used a 206 over here, Peugeot Sport wouldnt let ou do it unless you had a fleet of trained mechanics or something.
Fair play to him but I am etting a little bored of filthy rich guys playing about, tey all end up getting by highly talanted drivers like Donnelly, Hurson and a few others in reall old WRC cars. It increases the profile for sure but in Ireland there seem to be far too many guys out there getting beat by Gp N cars in state of the art machinery, fair enough but I'd be a little embarrassed, kinda like Mike Oates getting beat by a Darrian!!

**Peter Mallett** · 24 Jun 2005, 18:31 (Ref:1339402)

Quote:

Originally Posted by larry1

George Tracey has purchased a 307 WRC from Peugeot Sport in France. The Car is scheduled to hit the Emerald Isle in the next few weeks but wont be seen on the circuits until 2006. George has plans to do the Full ERC. The car is an ex-Peugeot test car and will be accompanied by a works Peugeot Engine. Suspension & Gearbox will be developed elsewhere.

Good news indeed. Nice to see the rumours confirmed.

Cryos · 25 Jun 2005, 13:14 (Ref:1339838)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunder

Please, please tell me where this guy gets his mone from! That car must cost not far short of half a million quid, on top of the 306 and the 206 he has the guy must be a multi millionaire!
I have not heard of anyone usin customer 307s yet ad the back up you need to run one is amazing, hence why no one ever used a 206 over here, Peugeot Sport wouldnt let ou do it unless you had a fleet of trained mechanics or something.
Fair play to him but I am etting a little bored of filthy rich guys playing about, tey all end up getting by highly talanted drivers like Donnelly, Hurson and a few others in reall old WRC cars. It increases the profile for sure but in Ireland there seem to be far too many guys out there getting beat by Gp N cars in state of the art machinery, fair enough but I'd be a little embarrassed, kinda like Mike Oates getting beat by a Darrian!!

em chunder, just looking at what larry1 said its not a customer car ?

Well george runs a very sucsessfull businesss (eirecopters) and has always been a very sucsessfull entrepenure.

chunder its catch 22, you need the top class machinery to bring people into look at the sport then and only then will people see what tallent is out there, regardless of what tallent or money people may have/spent if someone outdrives a guy in a bit of top class machinery dosnt that in itself make the racing that bit more interesting ??

chunder look at rallying in italy there is a certain championship where most of the time the S16 cars are way quicker than the WRC based machinery. I can see where your comming from but can you see where im comming from ?

George has obviously felt very secure in his rallycross futures both in ireland and europe and therefore has reinforced his confidence in the championships by purchasing a new car. Sure were all at it buying newer quicker machinery and it does raise the profile of the sport and makes the sport alot more attractive.

Looking back over the past 10 years of rallycross in ireland the track most certainly looks alot more professional, the cars are better kept throughout the field and there is just as much action.

EvilPumpkin · 27 Jun 2005, 07:17 (Ref:1340774)

larry can probably confirm this, but I don't think George confines his financing to his own racing - doesn't he sponsor a couple of other drivers as well?

chunder · 27 Jun 2005, 08:43 (Ref:1340836)

I do see where you are coming from but it only really works if the car is quick and on the pace and winning rallies like Austins Focus and the Impreza's.
There was such a hoo har about the 206 with McGarrity and various news stories and then was getting beat by GpnN cars, kinda takes the fizz out of it doesnt it.
I often wonder why the WRC cars are so popular in Ireland, it must be something to do with business advertising or something, coz surely the country cant be that much ridher yet we atruggle to get three or four cars over here on rallies.
In Ireland they are queuing up with 20 of the things and guys like Kenny and Derek are constantly shipping new cars over to get for customers. Does anyone know why the guys in Ireland spend so much on their rally cars. They all seem to be older guys with businesses. But are they diverting funds from theie business or do they just have the cash to buy the cars?

peespeed · 27 Jun 2005, 23:11 (Ref:1341562)

chunder if you were told how some lads finance their rallying you wouldnt believe us or it could be used in evidence against us(even though its true)

EvilPumpkin · 28 Jun 2005, 07:01 (Ref:1341706)

peespeed what exactly is that supposed to mean?

EvilPumpkin · 28 Jun 2005, 07:09 (Ref:1341711)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunder

In Ireland they are queuing up with 20 of the things and guys like Kenny and Derek are constantly shipping new cars over to get for customers. Does anyone know why the guys in Ireland spend so much on their rally cars. They all seem to be older guys with businesses. But are they diverting funds from theie business or do they just have the cash to buy the cars?

Why shouldn't they, if they have the money to spend? They've earned it, they can spend it however they like.

As for "diverting funds from their business" I think suspect that's probably illegal. They may well be providing some funds from their business as a legitimate sponsorship to their racing team as a separate entity, but that's not the same thing.

Martin Birraine has a museum full of very expensive cars right at Mondello Park. That doesn't bother anyone.

Some of the cars used for racing at Mondello are far from cheap - take a look at the Historics sometime. Or the Porsche class. Or the Formula Libre.

The bottom line is that if someone wants to go racing or rallying they will. They'll scrape up the money. The more successful they are, the more money they'll scrape up. Every driver will go for the most expensive car they can afford that will give them the performance they're looking for. That's all there is to it.

I really don't understand what the big deal is.

**Peter Mallett** · 28 Jun 2005, 08:13 (Ref:1341757)

I was going to mention the late Bertie Fisher. I met him professionaly and I'm sure he used his business to generate funds for racing. But then again I use my wages to do the same thing. Can't see the big deal really.

Cryos · 28 Jun 2005, 13:13 (Ref:1341977)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilPumpkin

larry can probably confirm this, but I don't think George confines his financing to his own racing - doesn't he sponsor a couple of other drivers as well?

I know DC does the above but i didnt know george does

chunder · 28 Jun 2005, 20:00 (Ref:1342295)

WHy is it that whenever i post on here people think i am having a go, i wasn't complaining about it coz out of those guys who can spend quarter of a mill on car there are a few are very good and they make the most of them, what i find a little sad is the guys getting beat by older cars, GpN cars and even Mk2's anywhere, is one of the things I find frustrating about motorsport I guess, the buy success mentality!
Have to say it doesnt happen in may fave racing which is stock cars, yes you can buy it at first when you debut, but you soon get put to the back of the grid if you start winning too much and then it up to you to prove you have the speed, most big money men get fed up and leave but a few stay and prove their worth.
Rallying or any otehr racing isnt like that and it pains me when guys get beat for a win by a car which is worth more tan the town they live in!
In Ireland though it is a healthy situation, far from complaining I find if=t intriguing that so many guys over there can afford these guys, that is what i want to find out!

M.Lowe · 29 Jun 2005, 16:36 (Ref:1343064)

The reason there are more WRC's is Ireland is because the owners are either successful businessmen who have worked their way up from lesser machinery or have dam good sponsors or the family business backs the cars.

Its a shame that rallying isnt as healthy here in the UK as the Irish tarmac, Dunlop National and northern Ireland and southern forestry championships always have overflowing entries.

The single venue/stage events are just as healthy and attract top class machinery aswell

M.Lowe · 29 Jun 2005, 16:40 (Ref:1343075)

Just reading Motorsports News there today and it says that George will change his engine from transverse to longitudinal location but the gearbox and some of the transmission could come from Xtrac.

The Metro and 306 could possibly be put up forsale but I think he will try the 306 set up in the 307 first

chunder · 29 Jun 2005, 18:38 (Ref:1343204)

Wouldnt that mean that he will just drop the engine and transmission from the 306 into the 307? I think that Kenneth and the Xsara do he same dont they, arent they using a longi engine.
Its better for the transmission i think and the driveline is better with a longi engine.
Transverse transmissions are notoriously expensive for a 4wd car, especially with the power outputs being used here.

DCS · 16 Jul 2005, 10:43 (Ref:1356735)

Well Super 1600's are nearly as quick because WRC's are so handicaped with their weigth and 34 mm restrictor, so the power to weigth ratio is getting close. And a heavier car wil have slower cornering and slower braking then a light wait Super 1600. So you will need a lot more technology to help you to be quicker. Also I have heard from Ron Snoeck that the first part of a corner are actually faster in a Super 1600, only it lose out half way the corner as they CAN use the power...

Regarding the purchase of a 307: I don't see the point in buying a 307 shell, if you would have to schange the driveline and appearantly aslo the engine and also having to modify to longinuatidal. Ok the 307 will probably be very stiff and the 306 is still a bit spaceframe so he needs to move on, but I think Gollop could build him someting similair for less. In my opninion he cannot use all the WRC unique parts...

Cryos · 18 Jul 2005, 23:52 (Ref:1358193)

Quote:

but I think Gollop could build him someting similair for less

not likely, we buy in euro gollop be in uk therefore it costs much more to buy stuff or build it because of Euro Vs. Sterling.

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