2010 Bathurst 12 hour

[alfacors]

Sorry, I'm too late to make a foot extraction amendment to the post now LOL

[mtpanorama]

Couple of logos still to go on.

[pplater]

Looking sharp as always!
Working on any class A cars this year?

[RotorFan]

Theres something so cool about having a liveried-up race car in your driveway

[mtpanorama]

Originally Posted by RotorFan

Theres something so cool about having a liveried-up race car in your driveway

It got some looks this morning as it is at my inlaws house which is on the road into the track, so there were a few onlookers.

Originally Posted by pplater

Looking sharp as always!
Working on any class A cars this year?

No Class A this year, unless I get something last minute, which seems to happen every year.

[mtpanorama]

Ingall out of the R8 tourer

http://www.speedcafe.com.au/2010/01/...rtwagon-drive/

[Oldtony]

But Paul Morris, who is listed to sub for Murphy in AbU Dhabi is listed in the EC BMW.
But then I suppose the bos can do as he likes.

[davo.]

Originally Posted by mtpanorama

Couple of logos still to go on.

The RS looks great, well done.

A little disappointed by the lack of competition for the RS, Alfacors I was looking forward to our RS v Proton match, oh well maybe next year, also so much for the Hyundai's.

While i'm on about classes, it makes you think about the future of the diesel class, maybe a rebate could be given for diesel cars to increase competition as a way to reduce the so called carbon footprint.
In enews Alfa stated they were going to enter both the 147 & 159, maybe it was too expensive or they didn't think there was any point racing against each other in the same class.

Class A,C,D & H have good numbers, would have liked more HSV's in B and I noticed no Chris Sexton cars.

Is anyone having guesses as to who will be the third driving for the Mustang. Apparently its a big name driver. A bigger named driver than Alan Simonsen, anyone's guess

[dermy]

The 3rd driver for the Mustang is............... Ohhhh You will just have to wait!

[Downoz]

Originally Posted by dermy

The 3rd driver for the Mustang is............... Ohhhh You will just have to wait!

S. Johnson

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by dermy

The 3rd driver for the Mustang is............... Ohhhh You will just have to wait!

......I hate it when people do that!

[pplater]

Dunno how I feel about this Mustang.

The race is supposed to be for attainable sports cars - I don't see why the Mustang should be allowed but not the Porsche Cayman, new GT-R or M3 V8.

You can buy a new M3 sedan in the showroom for $145k, GT-R for $156k or Cayman S for $157k - all cars deemed to expensive and ineligible for the 12 hour.
(Prices sourced from the latest edition of Motor magazine)

A quick check of online classifieds found the cheapest GT500 was a two-year-old used model at $138k. Demonstrators and near new cars trade for $150,000 and I bet ordering your own brand-spanker would cost close to $160,000.

2008 GT500 - $135k
http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...=gt500&trecs=8

2008 GT500 - $148k
http://www.carpoint.com.au/all-cars/...d=1261F583234F

2008 GT500 - $150k
http://www.carpoint.com.au/all-cars/...d=1261F583234F

Like the big Monaro in 2002 and 2003, I don't feel that the Stang is in the spirit of the rules.

[Belly13]

So who will replace Ingall in the Sportswagon?
And what of Craig Baird...will he turn up to fill one of the 'tbc' seats, in a Quinn Evo, perhaps???

[peckstar]

the article suggested nick percat might get the job, but it was speculative

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by pplater

Dunno how I feel about this Mustang.

The race is supposed to be for attainable sports cars - I don't see why the Mustang should be allowed but not the Porsche Cayman, new GT-R or M3 V8.

Like the big Monaro in 2002 and 2003, I don't feel that the Stang is in the spirit of the rules.

Then how did it come to be entered?........I don't feel that it will be likely to win.

[pplater]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Then how did it come to be entered?........I don't feel that it will be likely to win.

It runs in the 'invitational' class. Other cars eligible for that include the automatic-only Lexus IS-F sedan and the none too potent Audi S4/S5 pair.

[Rombles1]

Originally Posted by pplater

Dunno how I feel about this Mustang.

The race is supposed to be for attainable sports cars - I don't see why the Mustang should be allowed but not the Porsche Cayman, new GT-R or M3 V8.

You can buy a new M3 sedan in the showroom for $145k, GT-R for $156k or Cayman S for $157k - all cars deemed to expensive and ineligible for the 12 hour.
(Prices sourced from the latest edition of Motor magazine)

A quick check of online classifieds found the cheapest GT500 was a two-year-old used model at $138k. Demonstrators and near new cars trade for $150,000 and I bet ordering your own brand-spanker would cost close to $160,000.

2008 GT500 - $135k
http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...=gt500&trecs=8

2008 GT500 - $148k
http://www.carpoint.com.au/all-cars/...d=1261F583234F

2008 GT500 - $150k
http://www.carpoint.com.au/all-cars/...d=1261F583234F

Like the big Monaro in 2002 and 2003, I don't feel that the Stang is in the spirit of the rules.

Would this event be diminished by running an extra class for the more expensive models? M3 vs GT-R vs Cayman S sounds good. Bathurst gets used twice a year, and these cars are eligible for neither event. Hell, even go for 2 extra classes - $100-250K and $250K+.

[mildura1963]

I reckon EVO's would still be competative with M3 & Cayman, not sure about GT-R though?

[davo.]

Originally Posted by mildura1963

I reckon EVO's would still be competative with M3 & Cayman, not sure about GT-R though?

Maybe the organises don't believe the Mustang will be that quick and they know that a well prepared GTR will absolutely kill the competition.

It begs the question, If the GTR was to be eligible, what other cars would you put in the same class that don't cost double the amount of the R35?

I reckon the M3 wouldn't be much quicker than a 335i or 135i.

[pplater]

Originally Posted by mildura1963

I reckon EVO's would still be competative with M3 & Cayman, not sure about GT-R though?

Hard to compare the Cayman or M3 (maybe Motor magazine track tests would provide an indication?) but a race prepped GT-R was at Eastern Creek on the same day as 12 hour cars last year.

Steve Glenney took production on pole with a 1:44.0390 lap in his Evo X a few minutes before Tony Alford ran the Donut King GT-R in the GT challenge, and qualified with a 1:41.5764 effort.

It's a solid margin (just under 3.5 sec) but I reckon the heavy GT-R would burn through tyres and fuel more rapidly than the lighter evos.

At the Sprint Bathurst event in 2008, Motor Magazine's Michael Taylor lapped a stock R35 GT-R around Bathurst in 2:47.9398, a time I'd consider to be ballpark with a well-driven STI or Evo in stock form.

Steve Owen's pole at last year's 12 hour was a 2:28.88... I don't see the GT-R going any faster than 2:25 or so.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by pplater

Hard to compare the Cayman or M3 (maybe Motor magazine track tests would provide an indication?) but a race prepped GT-R was at Eastern Creek on the same day as 12 hour cars last year.

Steve Glenney took production on pole with a 1:44.0390 lap in his Evo X a few minutes before Tony Alford ran the Donut King GT-R in the GT challenge, and qualified with a 1:41.5764 effort.

It's a solid margin (just under 3.5 sec) but I reckon the heavy GT-R would burn through tyres and fuel more rapidly than the lighter evos.

At the Sprint Bathurst event in 2008, Motor Magazine's Michael Taylor lapped a stock R35 GT-R around Bathurst in 2:47.9398, a time I'd consider to be ballpark with a well-driven STI or Evo in stock form.

Steve Owen's pole at last year's 12 hour was a 2:28.88... I don't see the GT-R going any faster than 2:25 or so.

I think more performance cars could compete if the amount of fuel taken on each pitstop was limited to say 60 litres and if all cars raced on the same brand of tyre, therefore more powerful cars would be forced to make more stops and not able to run softer compound tyres to make up time. This would add a fuel economy element to the event and eventually the fastest most fuel efficient cars should end up on the podium.

[pplater]

Originally Posted by bluesport

I think more performance cars could compete if the amount of fuel taken on each pitstop was limited to say 60 litres and if all cars raced on the same brand of tyre, therefore more powerful cars would be forced to make more stops and not able to run softer compound tyres to make up time. This would add a fuel economy element to the event and eventually the fastest most fuel efficient cars should end up on the podium.

A quick diesel car could make an impact with those rules. Grunty turbodiesels often crack the ten at the Nurburgring 24hours, as do FWD turbo machines like the VW Golf GTI and Scirocco.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by pplater

A quick diesel car could make an impact with those rules. Grunty turbodiesels often crack the ten at the Nurburgring 24hours, as do FWD turbo machines like the VW Golf GTI and Scirocco.

It's just an idea.......it could add a green component to the race with more fuel efficient cars more likely to figure in the results rather than the most powerful cars.

[rdmdog]

Originally Posted by bluesport

It's just an idea.......it could add a green component to the race with more fuel efficient cars more likely to figure in the results rather than the most powerful cars.

A similar system existed for Le Mans at one stage, an allocation of fuel was made (for the whole event I believe?) instead of a capacity or RPM limit.

Mazda won with a quad rotor and then the idea was scrapped!

Seemed like a good idea to me!

Please don't let the 12 hour turn into a parity balance competition, cars should be able to hold the fuel tank capacity, plus a nominal (5 Lt?) for refueling apparatus.

[Oldtony]

Have done a bit of back of napkin stuff on diesels and the 12hr.
The regs state that either:
The standard tank is used with dry break refueling
or
A replacement tank is fitted using fuel safety cell technology with the tank size limited by a formula based on engine size. The max as far as I can calculate is 85ltrs. Read the regs on the B12hr site for more detail.

This means that effectively the limiting factor is allowable driver time for many diesels. The other point is the safety car interventions tend to set strategy as much as tank capacity, so really long spells do not always bring the expected result.
Hate the concept of race winners being decided on paper or on an economy run for outright, and that will always be the most recognised result, but I do think an index could be put together based on economy or carbon footprint.
That was always part of Le Mans and fairly well recognised as part of the competition. But then maybe that was about the only way the French could win anything at their own race for a number of years.