DMN 2007 - rules, regs, drivers, cars. (Formerly DTRC)

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by falcemob

How long will the tin top races be, sprints as in the DTRC or 15minutes or more?

I see in Brief Torque that the points system has been changed slightly in DTRC (capped at 5 bonus points for cars beaten in class). Nice move.

The new "BTCC / DTM / ETCC etc cars into class A" - does that apply to Production class BTCC? eg Kerr's 306, or Barry's Toyota.

[Al Weyman]

I still don't get cars fitted with non standard turbos not going into class A (sorry Graham but always seemed a bit odd to me).

[Al Weyman]

I said a Fred Elliot!

[mig]

The way I read it is any touring car or car built to touring car regs is now in A.How exceptions are going to be made will no doubt start to cause grief.How about historic touring cars they are built to touring car regs for example a historic touring car mini is still a touring car so does it go in class A?

[Al Weyman]

I would imagine they are talking about modern era touring cars.

[mig]

Yes so would I but it does not specifically say modern and there will always be a jobsworth racer who wants the rules taken to the exact letter

[Mad Dog]

I have to agree i fink that the rule is open 2 interpritashun xxx

[chezza]

As far as I'm aware Al is right, this was to stop the debates such as the one that was had over Greg Rose's merc and that.

However Lee and Bill have a point this is open to mis-interpretation and so I think we possibly need to look at the wording some more.

[pdd144c]

With regards engines, the rules state cars fitted with non standard engines are Class A. What determines a non standard engine as it doesn't seem clear? The block? The manufacture? Production date of the engine?

Paul.

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by pdd144c

With regards engines, the rules state cars fitted with non standard engines are Class A. What determines a non standard engine as it doesn't seem clear? The block? The manufacture? Production date of the engine?

Paul.

Non-standard to the car model entered. 2006 regs were along the lines of original block, but modify the rest eg can swap 8v head to 16v. The rules are being re-phrased for '07, so a replacement block can be used as long as crank and rod measurements are the same as original production engine (or something along those lines). Which kinda means that you can run a 205 with the "wrong" Mi16 engine legally now.

[Mad Dog]

Tris with the power that your new engine is giving you can not now class yourself as a little club racer xxxxx

[nyssa7]

Originally Posted by mig

The way I read it is any touring car or car built to touring car regs is now in A.How exceptions are going to be made will no doubt start to cause grief.How about historic touring cars they are built to touring car regs for example a historic touring car mini is still a touring car so does it go in class A?

Over in the LMA Euro Saloons where a large number of the touring cars run, we have set a break point of 1995 to decide whether in our Class A (along with DTM, GT, big mid engined cars, 4x4 Cossies!) or Class B (the old "modified class" - production based over 1950cc I think)

There's a definate break point where the era of Super Tourers suddenly became a lot faster than those form the year before

We would class a Production Class BTCC car separately from the "proper" ones as they are that bit slower and more in line with modified road cars

[bdwoody]

[quote=Minicross424]First i vote for Southern Tin tops, it has a nice ring to it.
i agree with minicross and eric it does have a ring to it.

[bdwoody]

what class would a 205 mi16 2000cc turbo run ,rod /chezza/graham.

[Eric Falce]

Any where else other than in my class!

[Flat Out Farr]

preferably in DTRC! I don't expect to be able to do many DTRC rounds in 2007 (MSA is going to give me a licence after all YIPPEE !!) so I decided, there is less chance of my little white Fiesta being run over in Tin Tops races, so I will go and play there, unless I am dead jammy and can get an entry in DTRC rounds. A set of 45's would help in the grunt dept as well, so anyone who might have a set collecting dust, give me a shout.

[pdd144c]

The car Andy is on about will be DTRC. Class B?

[phansa88]

The fiesta is apart what class and race will she be in with twin 45s or do i have to change this for the tin tops. OR go to throttle bodies and then sell the webbers on, also can i bore out to 2litre or go 2.litre block

[chezza]

Bah where are Graham and Rod when you need them?!

I really don't know...I'm no good at interpreting the classes and stuff!

[Rod Birley]

Assuming the 205 Mi16 turbo has a non sequential gearbox it should be in class B. However, one of the reasons we ask for registration forms is to check the whole specification of a car. The cars that ran in the "production class" class of BTCC will be normally classified in class C. This class was pinched from the old "power tour" and were not bona fide Touring cars.
The whole essence of DT&R is to put cars in classes not just based on c.c. This is why the single injector Sierras and Sapphires go in class B (although interestingly, this class has been won by a normally aspirated Mk.2 Ford Escort this year, and a 2.1 litre Pug 205 last year).
The "southern" tin tops are for more standard based cars running on list 1A and 1B tyres. At present some restricted turbos are allowed ( e.g. Rover Tomcat), but will be subject to review during 2007. The idea is to encourage drivers in sprinting to try circuit racing.

[barry barnes]

Originally Posted by teej

Non-standard to the car model entered. 2006 regs were along the lines of original block, but modify the rest eg can swap 8v head to 16v. The rules are being re-phrased for '07, so a replacement block can be used as long as crank and rod measurements are the same as original production engine (or something along those lines). Which kinda means that you can run a 205 with the "wrong" Mi16 engine legally now.

This could be a dangerous route to go down, wot price a duratec engined Mk2 Escort ??? Wot measurements are you going to use - ALL of them as in a production drawing or just throw / overall lenght or down to size of pins etc.

[barry barnes]

Originally Posted by pdd144c

The car Andy is on about will be DTRC. Class B?

wrong - Class A its not a car thats been manufactured

[pdd144c]

Originally Posted by barry barnes

wrong - Class A its not a car thats been manufactured

So what about the 16v 205s this year then Barry?! I'll go with what Rod's said... Either way I'll be out in it next year

[barry barnes]

Originally Posted by phansa88

The fiesta is apart what class and race will she be in with twin 45s or do i have to change this for the tin tops. OR go to throttle bodies and then sell the webbers on, also can i bore out to 2litre or go 2.litre block

In my opinion you would be better keeping to original size engine as changing bore and stroke could be counter productive and expensive for not much gain. Using a 2 litre block from Ford range depends on what your what type of engine you have already - if for arguement its a crossflow i.e 1600 XR2 you could use the old cosworth BDG block at a vast fortune !!!!! if you can find one, alloy ones are available etc etc etc depends how silly you want to be ? if its CVH did they make a 2litre or why not a Duratec 280 bhp in a FWD - frightening !!!!!!!!!!!

[barry barnes]

Originally Posted by pdd144c

So what about the 16v 205s this year then Barry?! I'll go with what Rod's said... Either way I'll be out in it next year

I was not aware of any turbo Pugs this year, a normally aspirated 205 16valve 2 litre belongs in class C, same as my Toy - or if its a smaller capacity into D or E depending on number of valves.

Do come and play , the more the merrier !