Ist lap Crash in Germany/Ralf given penalty (merged threads)

[Bononi]

Uhn ? Maybe he did not watch the race.

[paulzinho]

Just a thought if the race had been red flagged and all the other drivers restarted (lets say Kimi wasnt injured) would they all have to start from the pit lane? Or the back of the grid? Or at all? Given the fact that the teams cant change the cars between qualifying and the race Id guess this would include switching cars in the case of a red flag.

[Alan Jones]

With comments like these, one wonders if Nicki has been drinking from the same tap as Max Biaggi.

[Sir_Hobbes]

The stewards of the meeting received a report from the race director which stated that the driver of car no. 4 (R. Schumacher) caused an avoidable collision, contrary to article 53 of the 2003 FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations and the drivers of car numbers 2, 4 and 6 (Rubens Barrichello, R. Schumacher and Kimi Raikkonen) and respective team managers were summoned," the FIA said in a statement.

"Having heard the explanation of each driver and having seen the different camera views of the incident, the stewards conclude that R. Schumacher began to move to his left to obtain a better racing line for the corner. R. Schumacher admitted to paying no attention to the position of the other cars during this manoeuvre.

"The stewards note that it is absolutely clear that R. Schumacher's car made contact with car number 2 (Barrichello), which in turn made contact with car number 6 (Raikkonen). Both drivers of cars number 2 and 6 were caught in a set of circumstances over which they had no control.

The stewards of the meeting impose on the driver of car number 4 (R. Schumacher) a drop of 10 grid positions at the driver's next race, in accordance with article 55(c) of the 2003 FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations. The competitor is reminded of its right to appeal."

I don't understand how there can even be debate over weather this is Ralf's fault or just a racing incident.

"R. Schumacher admitted to paying no attention to the position of the other cars during this manoeuvre"

He didn't even look to see if anyone was there. This could have been completely avoidable if he had looked, or just maintained his line. I would be outraged if I was Kimmi or Rubbins and Ralf admitted this. Not only was it a stupid move but it was even more stupid to admit he paid no attention, he should have covered it up and said that he didn't see anyone. Admitting to not even paying attention makes him look really bad in my oppinion.

[paulzinho]

Thing is I dont think he would have admitted to paying no attention at all, maybe paying no attention to Kimi, whom he wasn't expecting to be there.

I mean how are you supposed to pay attention to the exact location of half the grid, keep in control of the car and make the first corner?

Like he said, he didnt make any sudden moves, it was just unfortunate that they all came together.

[Adam43]

It seems that it all comes down to what "admitted to paying no attention to the position of the other cars during this manoeuvre" actually means.

'the other cars' could mean 'any other cars' - which is bad. It is 'cars' - plural - which, I suppose, has to mean at least Rubens and Kimi (as all others aren't involved in the initial contact). Is that reasonable? Depends on what Ralf said about it really to the questions he was asked - none of which we know!

You can't read too much into this statement and perhaps we shouldn't...

[Jukebox]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
Indeed Kimi was nearly level with Ralf.

Here is the moment (more or less) of first impact:
.

Thanks for the pic Adam....makes more sense to say that the FIA was nuts to think that Ralf should have looked 180 degrees to his left when he's at a very fast pace and was about to take a corner

[Wrex]

HMaybe he was'nt looking at Rubins or Kimi as he was concentrating on getting one last look at the back of Monty's car before it disappeared.

Well someone had to say it.

I say again, the penalty is BS. Does anyone know if Williams are appealing and when?

[Jukebox]

Well... after making Monty eating his dust for quite a while in previous races, i don think he'd be much bothered in seeing Monty's rear end once in a while

Williams have lodge an official appeal yesterday (Tuesday)

[Mark Webber]

f1-live said they have appealed it. IHMO this is the worse ruling I've seen.total BS

[Adam43]

ever?

[Alan Jones]

The worst ?
IMO no. The worst was letting a driver get away with taking another out to decide the championship. As much as I disagree with the decision, the spectator in me is very happy to see Juan clearly in front of Ralf with a good chance to take advantage of team orders.I disagree with the concept, but if Ferrari is utilising them, Willy has no choice but to also play the game. One does wonder that with lil Schu as his teammate, how effective that would be is anyones guess.

Every year F1 is rocked by one or another decision by the FIA. It never ceases to amaze me. Maybe thats half of the attraction It gives all of us something to talk about while we wait for the next race anyway

[Jukebox]

Definitely not the worst but yet unjustified and questionable.

off topic - hates Martin Brundle.....can a commentator voice out his dumb accusations just like that while commenting live? Lucky i have the option to switch to StarSports as they have professional commentators not as blatant and biase SOB like Brundle.

[Valve Bounce]

Interesting that Williams are going to appeal. I wonder when the appeal will be held - before or after Hungary?

[BootsOntheSide]

I don't even think it was a wrong decision. Ralf admitted to his actions, and clearly was responbsible forthe accident. His swerve wasn't as dramatic as a TGF chop, but it still left Rubens and Kimi with no room, and was at quite a sharp angle over a short distance.

I've noted previously, he should've realised that he got quite a slow start, and, as Rubens was not past him, he must've also got a slow start, which is obviously going toincrease the chances of Kimi or someone else being alongside him.

[krt917]

But the penalty is way too harsh, especially when put in context with other stewards 'decisions'. The FIA really need to sort this out - be consistant and stamp out dangerous and unethical driving. I don't really think that, in this case, the punishment fits the crime.

[Splatz the Cow]

The FIA have said they will punish drivers who are believed to have initiated the contact. They did that here. It makes a joke of previous decisions, but maybe good will come from it, and we will see drivers floating around the track like daffodills in the wind less.

Of course, to keep a straight face, just don't look at some of the other judgements this year.

But I think Ralf was the reason why it all went wrong yestereday.

[Splatz the Cow]

Hey Juke, just out of curiousity, who is your favourite driver? I won't guess cos I'll probably be wrong and end up offending.

[Valve Bounce]

There was never a swerve. Ralf drifted across, amd I cannot see why he said he did not consider where the other drivers were. It seems that whenever someone is in a difficult situation after an incident, they have no idea what really hapened.

[eatapc]

The interesting irony here is that if Ralf had done the "Schumi chop" there would have been no accident. His gradual move is what slowly pinched Rubens and left him with nowhere to go. Perhaps swerving immediately after the start is a safer way to get to the racing line and defend one's position.

[paulzinho]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide

I've noted previously, he should've realised that he got quite a slow start, and, as Rubens was not past him, he must've also got a slow start, which is obviously going toincrease the chances of Kimi or someone else being alongside him.

In the space of a couple of seconds? When he's got a corner coming up?

Come off it, it took longer to read that than it took for the accident to happen!

As for the appeal, its going to be heard on August 19th, with the result being communicated by the FIA on 20th August.

Race is 22nd right?

[garcon]

24th

[paulzinho]

My bad, the meeting starts on the 22nd.

[Sir_Hobbes]

I don't understand how he could be simply protecting "his line" when Rubins was already beside him. That is impossible to dispute as look at the damage on Ralf's car from where Rubbin's tire hit it. Ralf was maybe about half a cars lenght ahead. Isn't that kind of late to be protecting it? If Ralf had checked his mirror on the left before going left (seems to make sense to do so) he should have probably seen a mirror full of Rubbins. If Ralf had just gone straight into the turn and not swerved or "drifted" to the outside all three most likely would have made it through the first turn. Thus the accident was avoidable and that is why he is being penalized, in my oppinion.

[Wrex]

Sir H, the damage to the side of Ralfs car was from the impact with Kimi, not RB. And if you look at the footage again, he left a car and a half's room for Rubins to fit. Unfortunatly, thats not enough room for 2 cars, which Ralf could'nt have known about or seen.