[FIA GT] Fia Gt 2010

[ss_collins]

sorry if this is found elsewhere but its not on DSC so I thought Y'all mightn't have noticed this under all the F1 stuff

WMSC decision

In 2010, the FIA GT Championship will evolve into two separate series, with a World Championship for GT1 cars and a European Championship for GT2 cars.

These Championships will follow new GT1 and GT2 Technical Regulations, to be published following the next World Motor Sport Council in December 2007. They will be based on the concept that 2010 cars will be heavier but more powerful, using production engines, with output controlled by various means including a standard ECU. The new specifications will also seek to reduce operating costs.

The rest of the Technical Regulations will be based on the current GT2 regulations, with some additional aero modifications permitted for GT1. The regulations for the FIA GT3 European Championship will remain the same.

[eddsc]

19 October, on DSC:
Stephane Ratel Talks To DSC – Part 1
A Wholesale Revision To The GT Regulations Package
ACO And SRO/FIA Now In Harmony

The Avon Equalisation Test at Donington Park yesterday gave DSC an opportunity to catch up with Stephane Ratel, on progress with the move to revise GT regulations for 2009 and beyond.

The initial proposals had caused major waves throughout the sport as a) most manufacturers did not support them, and b) neither, it seemed, did the ACO.

Initial fears that the proposed package, based on a ‘Super GT3’ theory for a new GT1 formula, would be forced through, now appear unfounded and instead an entirely revised proposal will be submitted for discussion and approval to the FIA World Council later this month, with full approval hoped for by December.

So what are the major changes Stephane?

“From the very first proposal our priority was to have commonality with the ACO and we have that now.

“We will retain the same basic structure, GT1, GT2, GT3, but instead of being based on the GT3 regulations we will now base GT1 on the current GT2 regulations, but with some sensible differences.

“In GT1, the two major differences from the current cars will be in weight and engine. The very expensive parts of the current GT1 formula are in weight reduction and in working the cars to deal with engine restrictors. The new package will allow less weight reduction but will run with unrestricted engines, which should be much closer to the production specification, albeit with some sensible modifications for reliability.

“For example – a roadgoing Lamborghini Murcielago weighs about 1600kg and produces 640 bhp. For the car to be competitive for the current GT1 regulations the car has to have around 500kgs taken out of it, which is very expensive.

“However the cars also have to run with engine restrictors, perhaps giving the cars 500-550 bhp and the teams and manufacturers have to spend a lot of time and money getting the best performance and reliability from the engines in that specification.

“Our new proposal means that they will have to spend far less money on weight reduction, perhaps allowing the cars to run at 1250kg, but that we will leave the cars unrestricted with the power output they were designed for, say 600bhp or so. So slightly heavier, but more powerful cars.”

The revised proposal comes on the back of a move from the major manufacturers to table a new structure, with just a single GT class (based around the current GT2 spec), a proposal which was categorically rejected by SRO.

“We want to see the new Ferrari 599, the Aston Martin DBS and others come into GT1 racing and this formula would allow that to happen,” said Ratel. “Our proposal is that the current cars would run in 2008 and 2009 with the new specification cars starting to run in a transitional year in 2009."

So, for now, forget almost everything you've read about GT3-based proposals.

[HORNDAWG]

Yep. http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=232

and

http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=148

L.P.

[ss_collins]

my bad! though now it is official

[AU N EGL]

Slight more wt but unrestricted engines? Yahhooooo.

come on 800 - 900 bhp. 600 bhp cars will be left in the paddock crying.

[JAG]

Engines will be no more than 650bhp, maybe 700bhp if the road car is particularly heavy.

They'll be closer to stock rather than current race engines.

[Subaru_WRX_STi]

Ilike FIA GT as it is now, with GT1 and GT2 running together, with the Spa 24 Hours the highlight of the season with some G2 and LMS teams, but th foolish idea from Ratel to create a "World GT1 Championship" is simply crazy, the FIA GT must be European series, and has nothing to do with the 2 Americas and Asia !

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by JAG

Engines will be no more than 650bhp, maybe 700bhp if the road car is particularly heavy.

They'll be closer to stock rather than current race engines.

Then they are restricted.

[AstonGeoff]

How many road cars produce 800-900 bhp?

Surely the regs will be written so that modifications to the base engine will be purely in the name of racing longevity? The whole idea of the new regs is to keep the costs down and allow more manufacturers and teams to compete? Yes, I'm sure, a few simple mods to a 500-600bhp road engine could release 100bhp, but I can't see 900 bhp full race engines being allowed, besides they'd be faster than a LMP1 in a straight line!

When he states "unrestricted" I think he means that there will be no air restrictors used.

[Hammerdown]

Yup. I was thinking that too. Not to mention slower through the corners (compared to existing GT1s). That could make it very tough for the P2s in particular on the twistier circuits. I suppose the extra weight would blunt the acceleration and braking though.

[minimangler]

Originally Posted by Hammerdown

Yup. I was thinking that too. Not to mention slower through the corners (compared to existing GT1s). That could make it very tough for the P2s in particular on the twistier circuits. I suppose the extra weight would blunt the acceleration and braking though.

P2s? Whaaa?

[AstonGeoff]

Originally Posted by minimangler

P2s? Whaaa?

According to your flag you are in Wales but do try to speak English!

[minimangler]

As in...what?

only shocked. So whaaaa...(missing t)

my apologies...

[Koulle]

In regards to the power and weight proposals:

The GT1 category will be reserved for models with engines above 5.5L. The manufacturers or tuners will be able to choose between homologation at 650bhp/1300kg or 600bhp/1250kg.
The GT2 category will be reserved for cars with engines under 5.0L. The manufacturers or tuners will be able to choose between homologation at 500bhp/1250kg or 450bhp/1200kg.
For cars with engines between 5.0L and 5.5L, the manufacturers or tuners will be able to choose homologation in either GT1 or GT2.

Source: http://www.fiagt.com/newsitem.php?key=1436

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

Ilike FIA GT as it is now, with GT1 and GT2 running together, with the Spa 24 Hours the highlight of the season with some G2 and LMS teams, but th foolish idea from Ratel to create a "World GT1 Championship" is simply crazy, the FIA GT must be European series, and has nothing to do with the 2 Americas and Asia !

I fear the Stephane Ratel has ideas way above his station with his World Championship ideas. As much as I'd love to see GT racing elevated to a higher status level, I just don't think the market is there for it yet.

For starters, look at the LMS Interlagos entries. Way down on usual seasonal entries, and FIA GT's own forays into more 'unknown' areas of motorsport haven't exactly been successful with brimming grids, have they? Grids in the far east of about 20-24 cars, with some of those being G2 and G3 entries to boost the numbers.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by AstonGeoff

How many road cars produce 800-900 bhp?

Surely the regs will be written so that modifications to the base engine will be purely in the name of racing longevity? The whole idea of the new regs is to keep the costs down and allow more manufacturers and teams to compete? Yes, I'm sure, a few simple mods to a 500-600bhp road engine could release 100bhp, but I can't see 900 bhp full race engines being allowed, besides they'd be faster than a LMP1 in a straight line!

When he states "unrestricted" I think he means that there will be no air restrictors used.

You may be correct, as I have little doubts they think they can pull off a charade, but whether the cars have the inlet restrictors or some other mamby-pamby method to keep the cars down to sanctions asininely obtuse level, it is same ****e different pile.
Unless the engine is going to come straight out of a street car, and used as is, it is impossible to build, i.e. even blueprint, an engine and somehow magically make it produce the contrived amount of horse power, without some strict restrictions applied.

Maybe they will just apply the GARRA format for controlling horse power, which is no better than the GT1 restrictions applied now.

[TheNewBob]

Seems like GT4 next year won't necessarily take place within FIA GT weekends, indeed the 2008 calendar, according to DSC, has the last round taking place within the BGT/F3 finale at Donington in October... might be a nice lil' race day, that!

[JAG]

Unless the engine is going to come straight out of a street car, and used as is,

That's the plan, or at least with minimum modifications.

[dj4monie]

Now that's more like it!

I am with Bob, with the way engines spend several 24 hour sessions on the dyno, if you really believe somebody is "only" going to have 650bhp@1300kg is delusional.

Try much, much closer to 750bhp especially if those durability parts are added to make it live longer at higher and extended RPM which will allow for much more power.

This does however open the door for BMW as they wanted concessions for the 6 series and Nissan who's production engine for the GT-R does fall in that 5.0-5.5 gap (well below that) and they'll be restricted in turbo inlet size I can assure you but still make "650hp"@1300kg quite EASY.

GT2 will be pretty much untouched, they'll loose some electronics (I am sure this is the ACO's idea) and gain some weight as well, but with current tire technology and with as much time as the cars spend in the wind tunnel these days, whatever they lost in electronics they'll pick up in mechanical and aero grip.

So what you'll see pretty much is the same level of racing and the cars might be slightly cheaper but overall budgets to be competitive shall remain the same...

Basically no REAL changes just shifting of priorities..

[Fogelhund]

I wouldn't get particularly excited about any "details" involved in these discussions. I imagine any real ruleset is quite some ways from being finalized, and it appears to me as though there is a power struggle between SR and the four big manufacturers. I wonder to what degree these big 4 will assert their power.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JAG

Engines will be no more than 650bhp, maybe 700bhp if the road car is particularly heavy.

They'll be closer to stock rather than current race engines.

Not a problem Jag.

I think a NASCAR road race car, ( Watkins Glen & Sonoma type car) 3700 lbs and 800 bhp will do the trick. Unrestricted ( 358 ci with one carberator) the car will hit will over 200 mph on long straights. May not stop worth anything, no handle well, but it sure will fly on long straights.

[chunterer]

So the whole car's will be closer to 'stock' not just the engines right?

So judging by current available models what sort of hardware will people fancy runnin in GT1?

BMW M6? (or is that GT2?)
Aston DBS
Ferrari 599
Mercedes, err what's that massive limo/oil tanker coupe thing they've launched with a 15 litre engine...?
Lambo something or other that replaces our favourite Murcialago?
Corvette
Dodge Viper (or Challenger perhaps???

GT2
911
430 and/or 8C (although that'll be out of production by then?)

Or have I missed the class engine distinctions here?

[minimangler]

Ferrari 612 or 599? I reckon 599.
DBS yes, Viper yes, Corvette yes, perhaps GT1 8c, Maser Granturismo, mc merc slr perhaps, the new mclaren car?, audi r8 (probably private, but a likely proposition), lotus europa gt2?, koenigsegg maybe, murcielago LP640 maybe, or the crazy angular thing (Reventon http://www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIA...Reventon1.JPG), but that is a murcielago anyway.

and anything else new in the near future...

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by minimangler

Ferrari 612 or 599? I reckon 599.

has anyone really seen any info on a Ferrari 599 GTC ? ( C for competition )

Not the info we saw a year ago with the test 599 GTC was slower then the prodrive developed 550s and even Ferrari's own 575? But new info this past year?

[WouterM]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

has anyone really seen any info on a Ferrari 599 GTC ? ( C for competition )

Not the info we saw a year ago with the test 599 GTC was slower then the prodrive developed 550s and even Ferrari's own 575? But new info this past year?

As far as I know, the program has been suspended.