The FIA and its authority

Harry Stiller · 14 Nov 2007, 22:14 (Ref:2067625)

Congratulations to Mike Lawrence at Pitpass for one of the best articles of its kind I have read for years. It puts matters in perspective for every follower of the sport and calls it where its at. As he so rightly states, the FIA is a self-appointed body without a mandate from an government authority. If he missed anything at all, it's only one small point or fact. Many years ago our American cousins made it quite clear what they thought of the FIA and its assumed power. From that day on the FIA has had no say, no sway and as far as major motorsport in the States is concerned, can impose nothing whatsoever and has no recognised authority. It only exists with the backing from one major motor club from each nation that chooses to support it.

I would go as far as to say this; If all the circuit owners and organising Clubs in the UK were to get together and form their own body, then the FIA, the MSA could both close their doors and would no longer be required. Costs for all concerned then might well become a lot more reasonable and a hell of a lot more sense might well prevail to the betterment of the sport in the UK at all levels of participation and organisation.....not to mention the paying and long suffering punters!

Hhhmmm....now where's my trusted paint brush and set of old banners? JYS and co. always said I was a real rebel !!!

Harry Stiller.

Chiefy · 14 Nov 2007, 22:24 (Ref:2067631)

Could we have some linkage?

Teretonga · 14 Nov 2007, 23:27 (Ref:2067660)

Just go to www.pitpass.com

Article is "House of cards"
Its good, clear and accurate.

Marbot · 14 Nov 2007, 23:27 (Ref:2067662)

Here it is.Not bad.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=33394

Err......great minds and all that.

flashing · 14 Nov 2007, 23:48 (Ref:2067668)

On this occasion Lawrence has nailed it. One can only wonder when the Movers and Shakers in the racing world are going to wake up to the total mess the ‘Blazer Brigade’ led by dear leader Max have gotten them into.

Chiefy · 15 Nov 2007, 00:50 (Ref:2067701)

Cheers for that!

Yep, nice article.

**Bononi** · 15 Nov 2007, 01:50 (Ref:2067719)

Wonderful article !

Do we need a revolution then ???

JeremySmith · 15 Nov 2007, 01:55 (Ref:2067721)

I enjoy reading Mike Lawrence articles.

bosch! · 15 Nov 2007, 08:15 (Ref:2067803)

He's totally confused about the Bosman ruling though, that case was about transfer rules and the right of players to negotiate with other clubs at the end of their contract not about the 2 foreign player rule.

Piglet · 15 Nov 2007, 10:02 (Ref:2067865)

I'm a great fan of Mike's articles but I think he is slightly confused about some of these points and seems to skip between a number of issues. As above, Bosman was about a right to work cross border, it was a fundemental human rights case it is not relevant to any issues of contract law etc.

Whilst I agree entirely about the need for equal treatment, within F1 these issues are dealt with under contract law, the regulations state that you can't bounce cases into national courts - it's not the same as a human rights ruling and doesn't really have very much to do with how the FIA gain its authority.

I agree with the issues that Mike raises but for once I think it's a bit of a scrappy article.

Ralf's Girl · 15 Nov 2007, 10:17 (Ref:2067880)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piglet

I agree with the issues that Mike raises but for once I think it's a bit of a scrappy article.

I agree - the article seems a bit confused in places (for example what bosch! says about the Bosman ruling - he's straying into dangerous territory citing an example he doesn't understand in an article). I think the points could have been made better.

**Asp** · 15 Nov 2007, 11:14 (Ref:2067917)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Stiller

I would go as far as to say this; If all the circuit owners and organising Clubs in the UK were to get together and form their own body, then the FIA, the MSA could both close their doors and would no longer be required.

How far this is true is definitely debatable. The MSA (tracing back to it's roots in the RAC) has a Royal Charter to govern motorsport in the UK. Having a race/competition in a 'public place' is a breach of the Road Traffic Act unless its regulated by an 'authorising body' such as the RAC/MSA.
It's all hypothetical (practical considerations of running against the MSA are plentiful), and I'd say there are ways around it - but it's not quite as technically possible as it may seem at first glance.

ensign14 · 15 Nov 2007, 11:17 (Ref:2067924)

Although he is wrong about the Bosman specifics, it was EU law that scuppered the foreign player regulations.

RT · 16 Nov 2007, 20:19 (Ref:2069148)

Problem is, if the FIA were not in place something very much like the FIA would need to be created. Churchill's statement about democracy being an imperfect form of government....except for the alternatives,applies to the FIA.

We don't need to eliminate the FIA, we need to improve it but roughly, it did the right thing this one time. And the championship was decided where it should have been...on the track...and won by the best driver....The Kimster.

ensign14 · 16 Nov 2007, 20:46 (Ref:2069167)

The problem is when the FIA appeals the FIA's stewards decisions to an FIA committee. And says no-one else can appeal them.

So, if the stewards make a decision the FIA likes, no other team can appeal it - no matter if it's as barmy as not DQing cars with illegal fuel that give a power boost.

henk4 · 17 Nov 2007, 08:09 (Ref:2069397)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensign14

Although he is wrong about the Bosman specifics, it was EU law that scuppered the foreign player regulations.

The Bosman case was about the right of players to break their contracts in case some other club would make a better offer...no nationality issue at all. The EC treaty stipulates free movement of goods capital AND labour between member states. Therefore any citizen of a EU meber state can work without any permit in another Member State. Playing for a professional football club can be seen as work...

ensign14 · 17 Nov 2007, 09:11 (Ref:2069416)

Exactly. EU law on freedom of movement.

Super Hans · 17 Nov 2007, 09:54 (Ref:2069429)

Quote:

Originally Posted by henk4

The Bosman case was about the right of players to break their contracts in case some other club would make a better offer

As far as I'm aware, it was never about 'breaking' contracts, but rather the freedom for a player to leave their club at the end of their contract.

Ralf's Girl · 17 Nov 2007, 11:03 (Ref:2069465)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensign14

The problem is when the FIA appeals the FIA's stewards decisions to an FIA committee. And says no-one else can appeal them.

So, if the stewards make a decision the FIA likes, no other team can appeal it - no matter if it's as barmy as not DQing cars with illegal fuel that give a power boost.

I agree completely. I think the problem with the FIA is that it isn't answerable to anybody, and it's not possible to ever be completely sure that their decisions are impartial - for example, the McLaren espionage saga with Max Mosley preciding over the WMSC hearing despite the fact that it's common knowledge that he doesn't like Ron Dennis. In just about any other situation that would be a conflict of interest, but the FIA can just do as it pleases.

henk4 · 17 Nov 2007, 12:09 (Ref:2069499)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Hans

As far as I'm aware, it was never about 'breaking' contracts, but rather the freedom for a player to leave their club at the end of their contract.

you might be entirely right there, it was meant to stop the practice that clubs could demand payment for a player from another club, even after his contract had terminated and even after the player had reached an agreement with this new club....(all in all it has nothing to do with the issues dealt with in the article about FIA

)

JeremySmith · 17 Nov 2007, 15:41 (Ref:2069592)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

I agree completely. I think the problem with the FIA is that it isn't answerable to anybody, and it's not possible to ever be completely sure that their decisions are impartial - for example, the McLaren espionage saga with Max Mosley preciding over the WMSC hearing despite the fact that it's common knowledge that he doesn't like Ron Dennis. In just about any other situation that would be a conflict of interest, but the FIA can just do as it pleases.

It's near impossible to show impartiality in that situation then if that is indeed the case, which brings us back to the remark that Sir Jackie Stewart made about the FIA and McLaren..

Marbot · 17 Nov 2007, 18:39 (Ref:2069685)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

It's near impossible to show impartiality in that situation then if that is indeed the case, which brings us back to the remark that Sir Jackie Stewart made about the FIA and McLaren..

Well if we don't get JYS making uninformed remarks about the spy affair then we are sure to get uninformed remarks from other quarters.

Maybe some of these 'informed' characters would like to take a seat on the WMSC at some time and then see just how different things are when they have to consider something on its own merits and not be swayed by what is happening elsewhere.

JeremySmith · 17 Nov 2007, 19:03 (Ref:2069697)

Well it was the Max Mosley does not care for Ron Dennis bit I was talking about. Not that I think RG is wrong, because it's common knowledge Mr Mosley does not like the man, therefore how can he be impartial in a process that involves a chap that he has little time for..

The last part of your post I agree with..

Marbot · 17 Nov 2007, 19:13 (Ref:2069704)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

therefore how can he be impartial in a process that involves a chap that he has little time for..

Max not taking part in these hearings would be a good thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

The last part of your post I agree with..

More ex-racers taking part in these hearings would also be a good thing.

Al Weyman · 17 Nov 2007, 19:14 (Ref:2069705)

Can't this go into a wider forum than Formula One where more club racers may see it. I think with the FIA/MSA'a latest Rain Light requirement imposed on us for 2008 plus a host of other things like having to replace perfectly good seat belts and extinguiser systems because they have been 'lifed' even if kept in a sealed box and never used. There should be a lot of interest on the racers Forum.

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