GK talks to the BAT boys....

marc sproule · 10 May 2010, 15:00 (Ref:2687997)

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categorie..._is_no233.html

JagtechOhio · 10 May 2010, 19:39 (Ref:2688174)

Thanks for posting the link!

So far, that makes 4 out of 5 as members of "the big tunnel club". Everyone used to thing heavy reliance on ground effect was dangerous. Guess we will find out again.

Purist · 10 May 2010, 23:38 (Ref:2688350)

Wasn't the issue with the old ground effects more to do with the fact that they were using side skirts in conjunction with the tunnels?

Also, the aerodynamicists have a much better idea of how to shape the undetray to limit the chances of lift-off when going backwards. At 90 degrees, it can be a bit trickier, but you can have that problem even without the tunnels, as the Indy Cars have shown over the past several years.

Just thinking out loud here, I have to wonder whether the extra bodywork and such to semi-enclose the wheels, which will create added undertray area, could actually increase the risk of blow-overs in some situations.

JagtechOhio · 11 May 2010, 00:29 (Ref:2688358)

Skirts or not, its about maintaining consistant ride height and sudden loss of downforce when you don't. Or when the car isn't pointing straight ahead.

IndyCars still do have tunnels, that is not in itself a factor which influences positive lift, even when the car is backwards.

The point to me is about the wake signature of a tunnel (or diffuser) car and how it prevents close following by undermining the downforce on the trailing car. The consensus of design philosophies is to increase the tunnels and reduce the reliance of front wings. I'm not convinced, so we'll see what we get when they get what they want.

The rear wheel enslosures will not generate downforce, they will reduce drag and clean up turbulence. And keep cars on the ground.

mountainstar · 11 May 2010, 02:17 (Ref:2688388)

I like it. It seems like a sensible, realistic proposal with a good looking car and a good emphasis on safety.

Much better than the Delta Schwang land speed record car.

JagtechOhio · 11 May 2010, 05:59 (Ref:2688426)

These three guys have the most direct experience to get the job right when compared to the other constructors.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 12 May 2010, 15:24 (Ref:2689227)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

These three guys have the most direct experience to get the job right when compared to the other constructors.

Lola have a lot experience as well.

JagtechOhio · 12 May 2010, 20:03 (Ref:2689364)

Bowlby and Partel of Delta were from Lola. So was Ashmore of BAT.

For sure there is experience and institutional memory, but is there anyone still at Lola with an IndyCar background?

An interesting point in the article that hasn't raised much attention anywhere....the formal constructor proposals won't even be made until mid-June. Now he IRL has to get that deal finished while they are busy trying to finalize the 2011 schedule to be announced in August. While they run races and devise new gimmicks.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 12 May 2010, 21:23 (Ref:2689412)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

Bowlby and Partel of Delta were from Lola. So was Ashmore of BAT.

For sure there is experience and institutional memory, but is there anyone still at Lola with an IndyCar background?

An interesting point in the article that hasn't raised much attention anywhere....the formal constructor proposals won't even be made until mid-June. Now he IRL has to get that deal finished while they are busy trying to finalize the 2011 schedule to be announced in August. While they run races and devise new gimmicks.

Whether they have someone per se I wouldn't know but I would have thought Lola still retain some expertise, this is obviously territory they feel familiar with, otherwise they wouldn't have pitched their bid. They will certainly have the necessary data pertaining to Indy Cars because of their previous involvement.

We will just have to wait until mid June. I hope they get it right.

Purist · 12 May 2010, 22:46 (Ref:2689458)

I'm sorry, MS, but it looks just as much like one of those "futuristic" Hot Wheels toys as does the Delta Wing, to my eyes at least.

mountainstar · 12 May 2010, 23:32 (Ref:2689477)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purist

I'm sorry, MS, but it looks just as much like one of those "futuristic" Hot Wheels toys as does the Delta Wing, to my eyes at least.

Well they seemed to have a more sensible approach about it.

Personally I think they should just devise some good regulations and let these companies have at it. Obviously there are a few that are interested. I'd go with what the boss of TRD said 18 months ago, go to 1994 CART rules with modern upgrades and party on.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 12 May 2010, 23:35 (Ref:2689479)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I'd go with what the boss of TRD said 18 months ago, go to 1994 CART rules with modern upgrades and party on.

I like that idea.

mz2k · 13 May 2010, 10:27 (Ref:2689673)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Whether they have someone per se I wouldn't know but I would have thought Lola still retain some expertise, this is obviously territory they feel familiar with, otherwise they wouldn't have pitched their bid. They will certainly have the necessary data pertaining to Indy Cars because of their previous involvement.

People are your most important assets. They may still have mountains of data from their CART involvement, but unless they have the talent to go with it, I'm not sure if they are at the same level.

I'm not saying they don't have good people in house, I'm sure they do. But they might need some time to learn the ins and outs of AOW.

Then again, a fresh perspective isn't a bad thing either.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 13 May 2010, 14:46 (Ref:2689818)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mz2k

People are your most important assets. They may still have mountains of data from their CART involvement, but unless they have the talent to go with it, I'm not sure if they are at the same level.

I'm not saying they don't have good people in house, I'm sure they do. But they might need some time to learn the ins and outs of AOW.

Then again, a fresh perspective isn't a bad thing either.

Lola last participated in AOW in the 2006 CCWS season, that wasn't that long ago and don't forget their involvement in Indy Car with CART, which started in 1985. If they weren't up to it I doubt they would have put in their bid for the new Indy Car chassis.

mz2k · 13 May 2010, 23:25 (Ref:2690075)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Lola last participated in AOW in the 2006 CCWS season, that wasn't that long ago and don't forget their involvement in Indy Car with CART, which started in 1985. If they weren't up to it I doubt they would have put in their bid for the new Indy Car chassis.

They were in CCWS up through 2006 supporting (not developint) a chassis that was designed for the 2001 season. The chassis didn't evolve much after 2004 or so and certainly not after it became the de facto spec chassis.

And yes, I'm sure they are up to the task. All I'm saying is that most of the talent they had for their last Champ Car have probably moved on. Not such a liability if they are bidding to become spec chassis supplier.

Oh, and their involvement in AOW goes 20 years further than 1985. They were producing cars for Indy, USAC, and F5000 before Newman-Haas and Mario Andretti helped them beat March (and Penske).

**bjohnsonsmith** · 13 May 2010, 23:40 (Ref:2690079)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mz2k

They were in CCWS up through 2006 supporting (not developint) a chassis that was designed for the 2001 season. The chassis didn't evolve much after 2004 or so and certainly not after it became the de facto spec chassis.

And yes, I'm sure they are up to the task. All I'm saying is that most of the talent they had for their last Champ Car have probably moved on. Not such a liability if they are bidding to become spec chassis supplier.

Oh, and their involvement in AOW goes 20 years further than 1985. They were producing cars for Indy, USAC, and F5000 before Newman-Haas and Mario Andretti helped them beat March (and Penske).

The B03-00 was the defacto chassis that ran until 2006 and was basically an upgrade to the B02-00.

I'm well aware of Lola's involvement in AOW outside Indy Cars and indeed other racing Formulae and classes, I was merely referring specifically to their involvement with Indy Cars.

You should check out Lola Heritage. I've been registered for a while, it's very interesting forum/site with a list of all the Lola chassis and their dates. It's definitely worth having look.

ptclaus98 · 15 May 2010, 16:50 (Ref:2690986)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I like it. It seems like a sensible, realistic proposal with a good looking car and a good emphasis on safety.

Much better than the Delta Schwang land speed record car.

Did it change?

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