Fifties Sports Car Racing Club (FISCAR)

[lml698]

A big thanks to everyone who raced in/ supported and was involved in the Sunday 50's sports and GT race. We had a great time with a decent grid and some excellent battles all the way down the result sheet. I think about 10 secs/ lap separated the whole field. I know quite a few couldn't be with us on Sunday so the good news is we have been offered a race slot for the 50's at Oulton Park on the 1st October. A 30 min one or two driver race for the 50's.
More info to come on www.fiftiesracing .org
Oh! and Congrats to his highness John Turner who has been elected as the clubs first chairman. !!!!!
We have been invited to Spa next year and also back to BDC and to "See Red" so we are looking forward to forming up a nice callendar.

Mark

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by lml698

Oh! and Congrats to his highness John Turner who has been elected as the clubs first chairman. !!!!!

An excellent and worthy choice, congratulations John.

[lml698]

Just to drag this thread back to where it started ....... 50's GT race. The race organisers "FiSCaRC " are jsut about to publish their initial list of eligible cars. List are classic argument/ debate material so it deliberately won't be comprehensive to avoid the " why isn't my Fizzy 1.8L TZ4" in there type response. We'll be aiming at all the obvious targets.
However there are clearly a huge range of options given the clubs aims "Production, Sports and GT models which have in period race history".
This made me think if anyone knows of or has seen recently any of the following on track

AC Greyhound
Arnolt Bristol
Berkeley Sports
Cistalia 202D
Fiat 8V
Pegaso Z102
Turner sports

A few of these would make and impressive grid ?

Mark

[john ruston]

The chairman of Turner owner appreciation society posts on here and has been known to race and own one on rare occasions!

[lml698]

John
thanks for the tip !! Will the aforesaid gentleman please step up to the keyboard and declare themsleves. There is a perfect series awaiting his car !!! Were still hoping for a strong lineup of 356's and 550's by the way

[john ruston]

Don't think therir are any British owned 550's,718's now.Pity.

Many racing 50's 356's and more being prepared.

Unfortunately our next car is 63 356 which misses dates.

We race 1938 Alta in Woodcote occasionally as that raced through into early 50's so is that eligible?It's different!

I fancy seeing Bristol 404 being raced,always thought those Arnolts were awful.

[lml698]

John

I think the Alta to be fair to other cars we have dealt with is not right for where we are trying to position this series. However exceptions can be made in an invitation class if the entry warrants it.
As regards to the 356 if it is to 1950's spec then as long as the same model was in production back in the 50's then the 63 date need not matter. This also applies to some of the Giuliettas.

[SZRacer]

Mark,

Sure I saw an Arnolt Bristol racing recently (certainly at Oulton Park a cople of years ago).

Not the fastest car out there, it has to be said....

[lml698]

James and others. If anyone can help track down some of these rarer cars that would be great. The grid would always be enhanced by some of these iconic cars that show up the flowering of auto engineering and optimism of the post war 50's. The fact that most many marques never made it out of the 60's is all part of the glamour.
The race series is going back to the team handicapped system and so we are less focused on raw pace but more in the team ethic and a good performance on the day, which means anyone is in with a shout of winning.

[Mike Bell]

lml698, Sir. Changing subject back to cars for the 50's races, are any Morgan types on your list for the future?

[lml698]

We haven't completed the list yet but in fairness we are aiming at 2 or 2+2 GT's and closed wheel sports cars. Clearly Morgans were part of the 50's scene and if one in true 1950's spec applied we would look at it. However we are trying not to "rob" cars from existing series with more modern regs etc.
Clearly there is a very active Morgan racing scene which we don't wish to disturb.
We'll know more shortly when the list is out.

[brands]

Originally Posted by SZRacer

Mark,

Sure I saw an Arnolt Bristol racing recently (certainly at Oulton Park a cople of years ago).

Not the fastest car out there, it has to be said....

There was one running in the Guards trophy in 2008, Ed Cottam driving.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by lml698

We haven't completed the list yet but in fairness we are aiming at 2 or 2+2 GT's and closed wheel sports cars. Clearly Morgans were part of the 50's scene and if one in true 1950's spec applied we would look at it. However we are trying not to "rob" cars from existing series with more modern regs etc.
Clearly there is a very active Morgan racing scene which we don't wish to disturb.
We'll know more shortly when the list is out.

Understood!

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by lml698

We haven't completed the list yet but in fairness we are aiming at 2 or 2+2 GT's and closed wheel sports cars. Clearly Morgans were part of the 50's scene and if one in true 1950's spec applied we would look at it. However we are trying not to "rob" cars from existing series with more modern regs etc. Clearly there is a very active Morgan racing scene which we don't wish to disturb. We'll know more shortly when the list is out.

Yeah, when Mark and I, and one or two others have finished fighting over .... err .... I mean discussing what's eligible!

[john ruston]

If you check Pre 63 race at Festival you wonder why the 2 litre Morgan's were so quick.Thought provoking!

[John Turner]

The Morgan plus 4 Supersports were very quick, I agree. I think that they are post 1960 cars though, so not a problem for us. In any event, we decide what we let in and whilst we are OK with Morgans per se, we will be selective about which models and to what state of tune we allow in.

[lml698]

I think John R has rumbled part of the problem. When any new series starts you inherit the "geography" of the racing scene at that moment not as it was 50 yrs ago. As a result you are trying to attract cars that don't have a home, ones sitting in garages awaiting a rebuild, ones who are not happy with where they are now etc. Some of these will be original, some fairly acceptable and some " a bit hot" or too mod' . This is clearly due to their attempts to meet the spec, race pace, budget etc. of wherever they were competing before.
So the net result is you can easily through no ones fault walk into all sorts of problems least of which is a fair bit of angst from other organisers who don't want their current entrants casting envious eyes at your new option.
We know that lots of XK's became very modified to suit their old series a few years back and it takes time for some of those cars to come back to 50's spec and not to be "hoodwinked" on the way. The same applies to other cars and as we know very few people like to spend money making their car go slower !!! So it will take time to for example get all the MGA's and TR2's who might be interested, back to some sort of state that reflects the 1950's spec. Sometimes it is easier to avoid potential battles than take them on in the paddock.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by John Turner

The Morgan plus 4 Supersports were very quick, I agree. I think that they are post 1960 cars though, so not a problem for us.

There are one or two that are very quick- but that is down to certain drivers. I am certainly not one of them.

Plus 4 homologated June 61 and Supersports June 62, so John T is correct. Would be difficult to find an earlier one not running to those specs.

[Teddington Ted]

Originally Posted by lml698

I think John R has rumbled part of the problem. When any new series starts you inherit the "geography" of the racing scene at that moment not as it was 50 yrs ago. As a result you are trying to attract cars that don't have a home, ones sitting in garages awaiting a rebuild, ones who are not happy with where they are now etc. Some of these will be original, some fairly acceptable and some " a bit hot" or too mod' . This is clearly due to their attempts to meet the spec, race pace, budget etc. of wherever they were competing before.
So the net result is you can easily through no ones fault walk into all sorts of problems least of which is a fair bit of angst from other organisers who don't want their current entrants casting envious eyes at your new option.
We know that lots of XK's became very modified to suit their old series a few years back and it takes time for some of those cars to come back to 50's spec and not to be "hoodwinked" on the way. The same applies to other cars and as we know very few people like to spend money making their car go slower !!! So it will take time to for example get all the MGA's and TR2's who might be interested, back to some sort of state that reflects the 1950's spec. Sometimes it is easier to avoid potential battles than take them on in the paddock.

Very well put. As someone who races a TR2 and a Morgan Plus 4 I'm always on the look out for a series where I feel that my cars are "comfortable" - one reason that I race in the Woodcote Trophy is that the TR2 is in the under two litre class. I could cheat but that would be an afront to the race organiser (DW) and that's not how I want to race.

The Morgan world is one of deep mystery. A huge spread of performance. Certainly in part explained by driver skill and also simply the standard of preparation of the cars but that isn't the whole story.

I actually think that there is demand out there for a 50s race series for cars that are closer to original specification (spending more to go slower) as long as the series is run with integrity.

I really hope you succeed.

Mark

[simon drabble]

the more I read this thread the more I wish I had a 50's car! Great thos being shown here and interestingly along with Julius' new series this seems to be part of a developing theme.... historic racing going back to where it was 10 years ago, I for one welcome it!

[lml698]

Thanks for the input chaps. We now have our Core list of eligible cars almost ready for public consumption. It is about 70 models long and that ignores some of the more esoteric diversions. Our full list( or rather John T's) runs to more like 200 !!!
Our confirmed aim is that cars must run to a set minimum weight, correct wheel and tyre type, set carburation and braking set up and clearly the right engine type and size. Of course this is all easy if you set the benchmark low and we don't always follow the FIA rule of the maximum that ever happened in period. We aim to set standards closer to reality than the maximum some clever researcher found at the end of the models history.
It won't be easy and I'm sure some will complain but all should understand that it is in no ones interest to keep pushing race cars further away from the way they left the factory ( unless of course you prepare race cars !!!) - especially in a reccession

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by lml698

Thanks for the input chaps. We now have our Core list of eligible cars almost ready for public consumption. It is about 70 models long and that ignores some of the more esoteric diversions. Our full list( or rather John T's) runs to more like 200 !!!
Our confirmed aim is that cars must run to a set minimum weight, correct wheel and tyre type, set carburation and braking set up and clearly the right engine type and size. Of course this is all easy if you set the benchmark low and we don't always follow the FIA rule of the maximum that ever happened in period. We aim to set standards closer to reality than the maximum some clever researcher found at the end of the models history.
It won't be easy and I'm sure some will complain but all should understand that it is in no ones interest to keep pushing race cars further away from the way they left the factory ( unless of course you prepare race cars !!!) - especially in a reccession

great comments and definitely the way forward

[Peter Mallett]

I don't know what the list includes but there must be a few MGAs knocking about that have been taken off the track. The MGCC doesn't really have anywhere for them these days. Would a twin cam qualify? Likewise not only TR2s but what about 3s and 3a's? Relatively low cost entries I would guess.

[John Turner]

Yes, all those would qualify Peter, depending on their spec of course; see Mark's comments above.

[Peter Mallett]

I read that the problem with the MGA twink was related to the carburettors. Apparently they vibrated and emulsified the fuel, making them run lean. Once this was sorted the cars became relatively reliable. I know that Mike Entwhistle ran an 1800 race version for a while in the Cockshoot cup.

Where will the list be published?