When will Montoya and Williams get it on!

[alesi95]

When will Montoya and Williams get it on!

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory again, still no victories on the board this is getting depressing.

[freud]

Only if Michelin get their act together...

[alesi95]

Mclaren were fine and dandy today.
Nothing horribly wrong at Michelin.
It's the williams that eat tyres.

[freud]

May be because Williams are using softer compounds to gain qualifying spots???

[EERO]

Actually, Willy were on the hard compund and the Macs on the soft against all logic.

[freud]

Hmm, interesting. So williams 'harder' rear Michelins developed blisters within 6 laps of each pitstop while Mclarens 'softer' Michelins stayed good throughout. I think there is no conspiracy going on here against Williams. May be the Williams have aerodynamic problems which let the flow of air towards the tyres so that their tyres get degraded quickly?? An engineer might be able to explain the reason.

[NiceGuyEddie]

Patrick Head (sort of) admitted that they made the wrong tyre-choice today. But it did seem as if the Williams' are eating their reartires. Maybe Montoya suffers a bit more, because his driving seems to lay a bigger toll on the rear.

It is definatly a major problem, because Williams did get a good slappin from McLaren today.

[Raven]

Williams gambled on it being hotter today for the hard tyres to work better. I reckon the BMW race engine is also a fair step behind the beast they use in qualifying.

[freud]

I think the problem of extreme tyre wear has occured throughtout the season with Williams.

[Lee Janotta]

The Williams just isn't a great chassis, and is relying a lot of mechanical grip, which is cooking the tires, whereas the McLaren chassis is possibly the class of the field, very agile, and has tons of grip in fast corners. So of course they're getting a lot more life out of the tires.

Williams needs to come back next season with a radically improved chassis. They're fools if they don't have engineers working day and night on computer simulations. They've got to stiffen the tub, employ a twin-keel front suspension design, and start with a fresh aero approach, using a _lot_ of simulations and scale model in the wind tunnel.

The thing I always loved about Lotus was that they'd bring out their best new ideas whether they were totally ready or not. Driveability was never a factor, and their cars were constantly on the edge of out of control, requiring a very skilled driver to get the most from them. Montoya, I think, is the kind of driver who could really flourish in a barely controllable monster of a car and really bring out it's potential. Let's face it, without Adrian Newey's refined brilliance, Williams is always going to be playing catch-up unless they decide to take the big jump and skip a few steps!

They _do_ have good brakes, and the rear suspension, gearbox and engine don't need any work. And they've certainly got the budget and facilities to take a championship.

[freud]

Good post, Lee. I agree with your points. Also I would add that if Mercedez makes that one step forward in their engine development program, we might see a Ferrari vs. Mclaren battle again next season. Williams have to get their act together. Their engineers are dissatisfied with the pay-scale and looking for lucrative offers. This season will soon become history, its difficult to say if they can even challenge for the title next season.

[Inigo Montoya]

I agree with everything you wrote Lee, except for the part about the McLaren chassis being the class of the field. The Merc is not as low on power as everyone thinks - Kimi proved that today. The class of the field (ahem.. in terms of technology) is clearly the Ferrari chassis.

[Damon]

Yes Inigo, but Adrien Newey has put together one great aero package on the macs. Williams are in serious trouble at the moment. Montoya is flattering the car in qualifying but for him to retain that pace in the race it destroys the tyres. The rear of the car should not step away as violently as it did in the middle of a 4th gear corner unless you have some serious grip issues.

[neilap]

My take is that Macs chassis is what has kept them in the running until recently when the motor has come into its own. I would not want to compare the Mac and Ferrari chassis. I am confident that Ferrari has the best motor o the grid, not Williams, maybe the best chassis too but not significantly better than the Macs. I feel the combination of JPM driving style and the design of the Williams is what is hurting them. RS with his smoother style albiet slower looked better than JPM bythe end of the race. Maybe next year the car will be more suited to the way JPM drives and if Michelin raises their game then the car can be really good. I feel the Williams will be pressed to keep the second spot. Kimmi impressed me a lot. I cant get past how well he has done in the last two races. In fact he has looked as good as and better than JPM in some cases.
What bothers me is that one of the designers for the willians is now at BAR! Great!

[Damon]

I think JPM had a dodgy last set of tyres to be honest. After the michilins typically shakey early laps JPM was easily able to keep those behind him at bay. Following his last stop however he seemed to have lost all grip as he was lapping over a second a lap slower than before the stop.

BTW. Also worth a note is where the hell was Ralf today, content to sit in 5th it would seem.

[Tristan]

No no, both cars were running slow. Nothing either of them could have done about it. Despite being onthe HARDER WEARING Michelins (believe it or not!!) both cars were useless. Particularly when you've got a guy like JPM driving your car, you don't want a chassis that's hard on it's tyres.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by alesi95
When will Montoya and Williams get it on!

Been thinking that myself, not that i doubt JPM's ability to win given the right package, but when will Williams choose the right combination of Tyre, Set up and Stratergy in the same race? As long as JPM carries on out qualifying Rafe and finishing ahead of him in the race i'll be sort of satisfied as he's done the better job in the same car.

Originally posted by Inigo Montoya
The class of the field (ahem.. in terms of technology) is clearly the Ferrari chassis.

The Ferrari is the class of the field in every way, not just the chassis, thats why Michael notched up his 17th podium on the bounce today, thats one hell of a package!

[Valve Bounce]

Why did SchM get early warning from Ferrari about oil on the track and Kimi didn't? This goes to show that Ferrari are really on the ball this year. As for JPM's drive in the last stint, I reckon it took all his skills to keep the damn car on the track - some of his corrections were really lurid. That third set of tyres just didn't work - they may have made some adjustments to the wings during the second pit stop - I don't know :confused: but the handling just fell away in that last stint.

Valve

[f1manoz]

I concur with the 'third set of tyres were a pile of ****' theory. How JPM didn't lose it just shows his skill.....

I'll be surprised if Williams manage to take another win. It's obvious that their car is suffering a major problem due to the constant problems that their drivers have with tyres. And they'd better get it sorted otherwise they'll be left in exactly the same position next year.

[Tristan]

If the third set were so bad, why was Ralf so off the pace too??

[av8rirl]

Are Michelin working closer to McLaren than they are with Williams?? Can the Willy really be THAT hard on tyres (blistering after 5-6 laps)??

[Mal]

I don't think michelin are working closer to Williams, or that Michelin are way behind Bridgestone(except the inters). I think what is now emerging is that the Williams Chassis is just eating its tyres, and has been hiding behind the power of its engine for some time. The Andrian Newey designed Mclaren is now clearly able to use its tyres better with no apparent drop off in performance. Now they have improved the engine I think this will be Ferrari's closest challenger.
The difference is so stark that the Mclaren is able to use the softer tyre and yet the Williams is on the harder one.
Newey designed cars are notoriously efficient on tyres and this is now showing with their Michelins. After all it is only this year and arguably last year that the Ferrari has had a car advantage over the Mclaren.

[Mal]

I think it is apparent that Ralf is softer on his tyre than JPM. Ralf was only off the pace on the third set because he was sat behind JPM. This for sure was team orders because had Kimi won the race as was looking likely the championship would not have been decided with JPM in fourth place.

[Tristan]

Thus, if Ralfie is better on the tyres than Monty, then isn't that some pretty poor racecraft on the part of JPM??

I just can't get my head around this one.

[Mal]

I am not sure it is poor racecraft, but a different driving style. It is clearly more aggresive and utlimately faster, but he needs the car to be designed in a way that allows him to exploit that for more than a banzai qualifying lap. This is what makes MS so unique as he has the ability to drive around these sort of design quirks and maximise whatever is available to him.(IMO)