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Old 1 May 2003, 02:06   #1
Dov
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Dov should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
One Open Wheel Racing Series!

I want to no if any OW racing fans want to reunite the IRL and CART? We are discussing it in the CART forum. We are tired of just talking about it and we would like to do something about it instead. If we just sit on are hands and do nothing, those two clowns (Chris Pook and Tony George) will ruin OW racing in North America for good!!! Fans can make a difference!

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Old 1 May 2003, 02:47   #2
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Guys Dov is being sincere about this. We've all seen openwheel in North America dragged though the mud, and this isn't about who's to blame, lets make that clear. But some of us are tired of sitting around after 7 years, hoping things will get better. We'd like to see one series and we'd like to see IRL and CART come together to make it happen. The politicians like George, Pook, Penske, Rahal, Ganassi have had their shot and we're all worse off after 7 years.

So we are proposing that the fans take some kind of action, to be decided, and put pressure on both CART and IRL to talk about unifying. Maybe a petition and a picket of both IMS and CART HQ, it's an open discussion and to be decided. But the fans have the most power in racing, not TG or Pook or Penske, we do. We can boycott races, boycott products, merchandise, and we can make the powerbrokers listen to us, only if we unite.

Anyway, we've just come over to see what the IRL fans thoughts are on the matter.
If they would be interested in a common cause. It's not meant to be a debate about who has the best financial postion or the most fans etc etc. We're interested, as fans, in bringing some pressure to unite openwheel in America.

Thanks, thoughts appreciated.

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Old 1 May 2003, 03:58   #3
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marcus has a real shot at the podium!marcus has a real shot at the podium!marcus has a real shot at the podium!marcus has a real shot at the podium!
well I guess thats fair enough , if the fans have had enough of the politics then lets get together and see if we can up with a solution.

I am personally in two minds about it , not for the political reasons or for financial reasons simply from a racing point of view.

Im very selfish and like both series and with the way it is now I can get the best of both worlds (ok so both series could be even better)
Ive said this before im first and foremost a racing fan I dont care if its formula Ford of a couple of snails racing down the footpath if its racing then I will watch it and the way it is now i can get two quality series one based on ovals and one a mixture , I think its excellent from a greedy spectators point of view.

I hate politics and dont wish to get involved in them at all and I can see that if the two series unite in some form the Im sure they could have one absolutely blinding series , and I guess in reality they should at least try to do this is some form , but if it doesnt work there is always the way we have it now with 2 very good and entertaining series.


Ok now I will don my moderators cap

I will let this thread run its course as i think its about time at least for the fans of the two series to get together to share our common interests but I will pull it as soon as any slanging of either series starts as I think thats the best solution as both parties have had enough of the *****ing.

but by all means carry on and I hope at least WE can rwach a common ground even if the powers that be at racing HQ cant.
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Old 1 May 2003, 04:11   #4
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Thanks Marcus, appreciate the thoughts under both caps.

And I encourage others for good constructive thoughts on the matter, even if you don't agree with us, we'd like to see what all fans, IRL or CART, think of things, whether we should try and unite as fans and get both parties talking again. If as fans we had put as much energy into protesting the split as we have in fighting each other, thread after thread, we'd have both TG and Pook at the table by now.

Marcus just to address your point about being able to have 2 series. Can we sell you on the idea of one series but with 25+ races per season ? A compromise. For example, places like Texas, Chicagoland doesn't really excite me, but as a openwheel fan I'd gladly compromise and have them along we if could unite the 2 series. All I guess I'm asking, for the good of openwheel is a little compromise from fans.

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Old 1 May 2003, 04:44   #5
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Thanks Marcus.
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Old 1 May 2003, 05:40   #6
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marcus has a real shot at the podium!marcus has a real shot at the podium!marcus has a real shot at the podium!marcus has a real shot at the podium!
oh yeah guys i have to say that this is only my initial thoughts on the matter , its a subject to be perfectly honest i havent given much thought for the selfish reasons I stated above.
but im about to head out for a long boring night at work , so I may just have a bit more of a think about it and see what I decide after that.
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Old 1 May 2003, 18:37   #7
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It would be really good for there to be one strong open-wheel series in North America that would race at Indy as well as all of the circuits Cart currently visits.

But, I don't think that'll happen any time soon. The two sides are still extremely far apart and have very different views on what open-wheel racing should be. Cart does not have any need for most of the tracks the IRL races at beside Indy and perhaps Pheonix. At most tracks can be driven around without the driver even lifting as they're stuck on the rev. limiter. Cart wants their cars to be a challenge to drive and be more about the skills invovled in racing on road courses, street circuits and ovals than just keeping your foot on the floor and trying not to hit other cars. If it were to happen, I think Tony George would have to be otu of power as there's no way Cart would work with him or he would work with Cart - there's just too much between them. And sadly, I don't see George leaving any time soon.
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Old 1 May 2003, 20:34   #8
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I know this probably wouldn't keep costs down, but what about one spec car for ovals and another for street/road courses?
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Old 1 May 2003, 21:28   #9
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Jay, if we the fans pressure CP and TG enough...they will be forced to work something out. If the fans could get Mario, Gurney and maybe Foyt on board, then a deal to unite the two series could happen that much quicker.
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Old 1 May 2003, 22:31   #10
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George and CART don't see eye to eye, and it's not very likely soon they would work things out. That's the whole reason why it's proposed that the fans do something to pressure the situation, if we continue to wait we are just going to keep going along with the slugfest.

We can theorise about the rules as much as we want but I'm keen to see if we can take any actual action as a group of fans to let both the IRL and CART know that we've had enough of it and we'd like some talks, else we'll put pressure on sponsors, attendance etc etc. as an example.

I know we talk all the time about how a united series may look if it ever happened, what guys like Dov and myself are saying is they've had enough time to jam and come together, now how about the fans organise ourselves, gets guys like Mario onboard, let them know how the fans feel about this split and bring something to a head.

Maybe we begin with a petition on a website and ask both IRL and CART fans that would like to see talks to sign it. We can then deliver it to both the IRL and CART as a sign of how the fans feel about this issue and what we want. And to be serious, if we don't get thousands upon thousands of signatures I'd be very dissappointed and have misjudged how fans feel about this.

As a example, after both CART and the IRL have had some time to view the list if they still hadn't taken some action in contacting each other and at least talking then we can put to the series that we will be calling upon all fans who signed the petition and anyone else who cares, to begin boycotting sponsors within their series. The idea being if TG and Pook are driven by sponsors like Toyota, Honda, Ford etc then perhaps they might get pressure from these guys when they realise thousands of fans aren't going to buy their products.

These are just ideas of what perhaps could be done, I'd like to hear more if people have any. But either way this is what we want to discuss, if we the fans can do anything to bring the situation to a head and get both sides in the same room talking.

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Old 2 May 2003, 15:00   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jay
It would be really good for there to be one strong open-wheel series in North America that would race at Indy as well as all of the circuits Cart currently visits.
CART has some circuits that are real dogs, just like the IRL does. Keeping them all would not lead to a "strong open-wheel series."

Basically, your suggestion would be to do away with the IRL all together. Not much of a compromise.

Blue

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Old 2 May 2003, 17:47   #12
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What IRL circuits are of any use? They're all ovals... Michigan maybe, Indy purely because the media follows it. Still, I'd really prefer if Indy were reduced to a single weekend like every other race. A month for one race is just too much.

Cart has a few that are questionable...but I'd rather have a street race in a major market such as Denver or Miami than have an oval in the middle of nowhere that nobody will go to (unless they had to buy the ticket with their Nascar pass).

And thus you see the problem...and probably why these two series won't be getting together in the near future.
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Old 2 May 2003, 22:07   #13
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You could replace the Denver street race with the oval at Pikes Peak, and you could replace the Miami street race with Homestead. And they should definitley do Phoenix, that was always a great race.

As for Indy being only one weekend, I totally disagree. Part of the majesty of the Indy 500 was the month long build-up. Qualifying there was like an event in itself. You can say the Indy 500 is just another race, but even now that's not true. In fact the IRL only exists because of the 500. Without the 500, no one would want to run the IRL. So the 500 is big.
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Old 2 May 2003, 22:22   #14
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(1)Are YOU fed up with the quality of racing in CART and the IRL?
(2)Can YOU imagine how much better the racing would be if they were united?
(3)Do YOU HONESTLY believe that CART and even the IRL will be around in another 10 years IF they don't unite?
(4)Would YOU be willing to AT LEAST sign a petition?

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Old 2 May 2003, 22:51   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by evo
...you could replace the Miami street race with Homestead.
Why would you do that? The local Miami government, I'd think the people of Miami are more supportive of a downtown street race than a race at a track outside of town. It brings more money into the area, has more prestige and will give the city a higher profile.

As for Indy, it's a month of wasted time that could be used for 2 or 3 races. Given the choice between a race or a practice session on a weekend, I think most people would prefer a race. It's a big race, but so is Monaco, so is Long Beach and they don't need a month to decide the starting grid.
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