Should James Courtney replace Marcus Marshall ??

karimbo · 25 Jun 2005, 13:27 (Ref:1339843)

Shouldn't James Courtney replace Marcus Marshall ?? James is Australian like Marcus but he is sooo much faster. I can't beleive that no one in Australia has noted this "mistake"...

macdaddy · 25 Jun 2005, 13:47 (Ref:1339850)

I've changed the thread title.
"James Courtney to replace Marcus Marshall ??" was very misleading.

D.R.T. · 25 Jun 2005, 15:31 (Ref:1339895)

Quote:

Originally Posted by karimbo

Shouldn't James Courtney replace Marcus Marshall ?? James is Australian like Marcus but he is sooo much faster. I can't beleive that no one in Australia has noted this "mistake"...

James Courtney is an extrememly good talent. He would be an F1 regular now if it wasnt for the ill fated testing accident at Monza in 01 or 02. No one is not aware of his talent, the problem lies he is contracted to Toyota Japan at the moment.

Otherwise yes I agree he could do wonders in the TA machine.

BootsOntheSide · 25 Jun 2005, 15:54 (Ref:1339907)

This question's a bit of a non-starter really, because James isn't available to take up the drive. It does seem like a waste to have Marcus in the car, because he doesn't seem to be up to the job, although I appreciate that a team with no proper engineer and the weight of national expectation is about the worst set of circusmtances for a rookie who doesn't know the tracks - the only real advantage is having Tag on the team.

Phoenix1 · 25 Jun 2005, 16:45 (Ref:1339940)

My thought is that yes he is slow but so was Klien in F1 last year and look at him this year. Everyone needs a chance and with little experience in the team what it really needs is a driver with experience to come in and help - I suspect that, to use my example, DC has helped Klien and Red Bull alot this year. The other thing is that I hope there are no more changes this year as fans need something constant and so do sponsors - no point getting adverts and billboards etc... printered if the driver might leave before they are up and running. So basically leave him where he is for now and if he has not improved by the end of the year then okay get another driver.

Omega99 · 25 Jun 2005, 17:06 (Ref:1339951)

Don't forget about what Dominguez was like as a rookie in 2002.

Mosport67 · 25 Jun 2005, 17:51 (Ref:1339971)

Even Nelson Phillippe is better this season. I think a 2nd year helps. Contrast Marshall and Phillippe to Ranger & Bremner who spent more time in development series. I think they are both more talented but ChampCar is tough without the proper grounding.

Marshall seems to be in over his head this season.

marcus · 25 Jun 2005, 20:03 (Ref:1340039)

well Im a big fan of marshall's so i wont comment to much except to say that its only tenths of seconds in it every time he goes out.

yes he's done towards the bottom but its not as if he is 2 or 3 seconds off the pace everywhere.

Kicking-back · 25 Jun 2005, 23:15 (Ref:1340136)

Marshall has been 2-3 seconds off his team-mate several times.

He's clearly out of his depth - and a look at his British F3 record last year shows that.

James Courtney would clearly be a better prospect, but the bills have to be paid - that's motorsport.

marcus · 25 Jun 2005, 23:22 (Ref:1340139)

I wasnt referring to tagliani , i meant the guys also around the bottom of the grid.

look at todays race he 1 tenth off Sperafico and 1.7 off pole , thats no too bad really

Razor · 26 Jun 2005, 05:48 (Ref:1340222)

Quote:

Originally Posted by karimbo

Shouldn't James Courtney replace Marcus Marshall ?? James is Australian like Marcus but he is sooo much faster. I can't beleive that no one in Australia has noted this "mistake"...

Nope. Because he is racing for Holden Racing Team in the V8 Supercars in the endruance races and probley a full season next year.

**GTRMagic** · 26 Jun 2005, 05:56 (Ref:1340225)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

This question's a bit of a non-starter really, because James isn't available to take up the drive. It does seem like a waste to have Marcus in the car, because he doesn't seem to be up to the job, although I appreciate that a team with no proper engineer and the weight of national expectation is about the worst set of circusmtances for a rookie who doesn't know the tracks - the only real advantage is having Tag on the team.

Meantime, the "No Limit Property Group" appears around the team for a reason.... if it disappeared, it is more than likely that there would be a budget shortfall....

My only question in the "team Australia" saga is why they dont spend the lazy US$250k and buy themselves a decent engineer....

D.R.T. · 26 Jun 2005, 08:28 (Ref:1340258)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Barton

Nope. Because he is racing for Holden Racing Team in the V8 Supercars in the endruance races and probley a full season next year.

Lets hope his open wheel career can be saved.

BootsOntheSide · 26 Jun 2005, 10:43 (Ref:1340293)

I suspect James is being paid more for the Holden drive than he would be paying for the ChampCar drive, so he might be happy with where he is now.

mabs_nsx · 26 Jun 2005, 12:37 (Ref:1340341)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Barton

Nope. Because he is racing for Holden Racing Team in the V8 Supercars in the endruance races and probley a full season next year.

Isn't he racing in the Super GT next year?

karimbo · 26 Jun 2005, 20:08 (Ref:1340497)

The fact is that James would be very quick right from the moment he'd sit in the car. He wouldn't need two years of experience to be racing in the middle of the field. As for the money issue I didn't know that Australians could not afford to give their most talented drivers a break.

marcus · 26 Jun 2005, 20:34 (Ref:1340523)

Quote:

Originally Posted by karimbo

The fact is that James would be very quick right from the moment he'd sit in the car. He wouldn't need two years of experience to be racing in the middle of the field. As for the money issue I didn't know that Australians could not afford to give their most talented drivers a break.

thats pretty subjective really.

how do you know Courtney wouldnt need 2 years experience ??

he may be painfully slow , you simply cannot compare the 2 drivers , when one hasnt even driven a champcar before

Im not saying james wouldnt do a good job because i think he certainly would , but it isnt going to happen because he has another career path in mind.
Marcus on the other hand has been very quick in everything he has ever stept into but sadly hasnt had full seasons in alot of these cars.

he is struggling at the moment and I hope he can do better in the future and if he doesnt well then the team definately WILL look towards another driver.

karimbo · 27 Jun 2005, 00:29 (Ref:1340637)

Dear Marcus can you really compare James' and Marcus' results in karting ? In Formula Ford ? in Formula 3? Judging by what he has done in all the junior formulas James is in a class of his own. He's like Alonso or Raikonnen...

BootsOntheSide · 27 Jun 2005, 15:24 (Ref:1341204)

Karimbo, as you fully well know, a driver who never won a race in two seasons of Italian F3 managed to win both ChampCar and F1 World titles, while the youngest ever F3000 race winner (until Alonso replaced him), Tarso Marques, has made only a sporadic impact in either. Nigel Mansell had about teh weakest pre-F1 record of any of the guys on the 1988 F1 grid (although lack of money probably afefcted this more than talent), and he still did really well at the highest level.

The point is, you can made reasonably confident predictions about which drivers will and won't shine in a series (and I agree that Courtney is the better driver on paper), but there's nothing concrete to prove it. In any case, Marshall may have tore up da Matta's suspension, and perhaps what little reputation he did have, but he hasn't torn up James Courtney's contract.

Snrub · 27 Jun 2005, 17:11 (Ref:1341249)

$250k is a lot of money for a team that is running on fumes. I don't mean to insult Team Australia, but the whole commercial concept seems half baked. Besides, why pay for an engineer when Tagliani can setup the car as well as most engineers?

Give Marshall some time. It's a very competitive series and he doesn't have a lot of direction. I really wonder how much better Dominguez could have been in 2002 with a little more direction? He obviously had the talent, but he was on a one car team. Jourdain is another interesting example. He was in the series for years and everyone assumed that he stunk. It turns out that he didn't.

mac · 27 Jun 2005, 23:21 (Ref:1341569)

I was going to raise the point regarding Jourdain - I thought he was useless til he bobbed up at Rahal.

I think James is perhaps the most talented Australian driver to never get a break in major open wheel racing. He has the ability to be on a par with ANY driver in Champ Car.

However, his career has been funded on talent alone - and absolutely no money. His impressive karting results got him a Van Diemen Formula Ford drive. His FFord results got him a Jag F3 ride. His Jag F3 results got him a Carlin ride.

My theory is that Jag dumping him after his 2002 testing accident did a lot of undeserved harm to his standing in Europe.

In 2002 he had two tests, the first was rained out at Silverstone, the second was halted after minimal laps when his rear wing failed and catapulted him into the fence. This also ruined his shot at the British F3 championship, which he led at the time.

Perhaps James made a mistake in going to Japan instead of the US? Who knows?

I think he would be a better initial prospect than Marcus, but the fact is that he is being very handsomely paid by Toyota to drive in Super GT.

And from everything I have heard James is thoroughly enjoying living on Australia's Sunshine Coast with his new wife and getting paid well to race fast cars (which he enjoys driving) for the first time in his life.

Having said all of that, I think Marcus is not that far off the pace. For a guy with no experience of these cars or tracks, with a team that has never run a Lola before, and with no engineer to guide him in setting up the car, I think he isn't doing too bad a job.

I think he will improve over the season.

mountainstar · 28 Jun 2005, 07:13 (Ref:1341713)

I would agree, considering the circumstances there is only so much that can be expected. Now, if next year there is no improvement, then okay we can say Marshall is lacking.

Liz · 28 Jun 2005, 11:22 (Ref:1341874)

I'm surprised that Memo Gidley's name has not come up in this thread.

marcus · 28 Jun 2005, 11:43 (Ref:1341898)

thats because I believe part of the agreement is to have an Australian driver in the 2nd car.

they have a development team in Formula BMW as well and they had a win at the USGP.

memo of course would be great but he isnt true blue mate

Raglanparade · 28 Jun 2005, 11:58 (Ref:1341917)

Mark Webber will join them when Williams give him the ass in a couple of years.

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