Bus lane cameras

**Craig** · 3 Oct 2005, 18:26 (Ref:1423067)

Okay, you will remember my last post on this subject where my friend got busted? Well the lovely Mr Livingstone saw fit to let her off... as when they examined the photographs her Golf had morphed into a motorbike! haha

Anyway... I got a letter today! I was driving out of Central London on the A3 through Wandsworth and had grown tired of sitting in the traffic jam. Noticing that the bus lane was only in operation from 0700-1000 I decided to head along it. However Mr Livingstone's clocks seem to be set differently and they sent me a nice photograph of myself driving down the bus lane at 0956:38!! Seriously... wtf is up with these morons?? Well I ain't paying it is all I know. Let em take me to court!

**Tim Falce** · 3 Oct 2005, 18:36 (Ref:1423076)

I think the problem with these and the council run parking ticket scams is that you don't get the opportunity to go to court. You just appeal and it goes before a board of sandal wearing Liberals who hate cars and you end up paying double.

thebear · 3 Oct 2005, 20:18 (Ref:1423152)

Quote:

Originally Posted by falcemob

I think the problem with these and the council run parking ticket scams is that you don't get the opportunity to go to court. You just appeal and it goes before a board of sandal wearing Liberals who hate cars and you end up paying double.

Not only that, they hug trees, eat granola and have probably never driven a car.

AussieV8 · 11 Oct 2005, 03:29 (Ref:1430341)

As a bus driver now Inspector u did the crime pay the fine..

**Craig** · 13 Oct 2005, 15:54 (Ref:1432828)

Did I hell... If they are not gonna have a five or ten minute period of grace at the start/end then they should replace the signs that state the times you can use the lane with a simple open/closed sign. Anyway I have made my position quite clear to my employers - I ain't paying - it's up to them to handle TFL as they see fit.

**Tim Falce** · 13 Oct 2005, 16:07 (Ref:1432836)

But they do have signs that state the time you can use them, the one you were in must have said 7am to 10am, you were in it at 09.56am. Why should they have a period of grace?

Bluebottle · 13 Oct 2005, 16:10 (Ref:1432839)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

If they are not gonna have a five or ten minute period of grace at the start/end

Why should they? One or two perhaps but ten? C'mon, even a £5 digital watch keeps better time than that.

**Craig** · 13 Oct 2005, 16:14 (Ref:1432842)

Perhaps I could have picked up my phone to check the time on the van was accurate to the second. Oh, no, couldn't do that either... So really then, the offense I committed was to rely on a Volswagon clock which loses time. Maybe I'll suggest they forward the fine to the VW dealer.

**Tim Falce** · 13 Oct 2005, 16:33 (Ref:1432865)

Do you have a radio turned on, a clock on your mobile phone or a watch on your wrist? If the answer is no to all of the above then you should be more carefull. Just pay up, you took a chance and you got caught.

Bluebottle · 13 Oct 2005, 16:35 (Ref:1432868)

There has to be a firm cut-off, it's either open or not open, it's never just a little bit open. If there was a 5 minute 'grace' and ,say, you were caught 1 minute outside you'd be wanting a 10 minute period then a 15 minute etc etc. It's not difficult or expensive to know what the time is but it could be expensive not to know.

**Craig** · 13 Oct 2005, 16:50 (Ref:1432886)

No, yes, no. Since it is now illegal to so much as touch a phone (!) then I'm rather stuck. Still ain't paying it though. And, no, I didnt' take a chance. I looked at the stream of cars driving up my inside, looked at the sign, looked at my clock and decided it was fine to use the bus lane as indicated by the sign. How do we know it was my clock (as well as all the others using it) which was wrong - how do we know Mr Livingstone's clock was correct?

**John Turner** · 13 Oct 2005, 16:51 (Ref:1432887)

Quote:

Originally Posted by falcemob

You just appeal and it goes before a board of sandal wearing Liberals who hate cars and you end up paying double.

Is this a political statement or should that be 'liberal' with a small 'l'?

**Tim Falce** · 13 Oct 2005, 17:48 (Ref:1432940)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Turner

Is this a political statement or should that be 'liberal' with a small 'l'?

Never thought about it like that but I always associate Liberals with a political party and the Guardian at the same time

blackx · 13 Oct 2005, 22:44 (Ref:1433152)

How are things progressing Craig?
I must say I fully understand what you did and why..
If my clock had said it was FINE to use the lane then I would have done as well..

It would be an interesting case to sit in on if it ever did go to court..
How could they prove that you were wrong if you state that your clock said it was ok and theirs didnt??

Raglanparade · 25 Oct 2005, 23:34 (Ref:1443466)

same deal here in Australia with our 'School Zones'.

Between the hours of 8am and 9:30am, we now have signs saying we must drive 40 kmh outside schools.

However, who's to say when the 8am starts ? your watch ? your cars clock ? or Mr Policemans clock.

I think 5 minutes is a reasonable variance to have, as i know from my watch on my wrist, to clock-in times at work, and other various clocks and time keeping devices, there is usually a 5 minute variance.

To get clocked at anything after 9:55am is therefore arguable, and if you wanted to take it to court all you have to do is point out that your clock stated 10am and it was on the basis of this clock that you decided to use the lane. Then you would point out that 5 mins is a reasonable amount of time to allow for variance (possibly even asking the various people around the courtroom for the exact time on their watch - im sure you would find variance there !! hehe)..

In all seriousness here, the argument is 'what is a reasonable variance?', and i beleive that 5 minutes is a reasonable variance.

AussieV8 · 26 Oct 2005, 00:19 (Ref:1443492)

now its law here in Sydney that if your caught in a bus lane its $220 fine and 3 points off ur licence...about time.

Mathias · 23 Nov 2005, 19:15 (Ref:1468647)

The question you need to ask yourself is: why was the "normal" lane chocka and the bus lane free flowing? You were fed up waiting and moved into the bus lane to get past people who (it would seem) had clocks/watches accurate to the TfL clock. You took a risk w.r.t. a slightly dodgy situation in order to gain an advantage over your competitors, and the fine is the outcome of that risk. Being the smug soul that I am, I would say, next time, wait til your watch says at least 10:10 before risking the bus lane...,

(Speaking as a local government employee who takes offence at your Council-bashing.)

Mathias · 23 Nov 2005, 19:17 (Ref:1468649)

Incidentally, The Gruaniad was always ostensibly a left-wing newspaper when I was growing up, not a Liberal one. Though it's probably fair to say that the left ain't as left as it used to be, but that's another topic.

**Craig** · 23 Nov 2005, 20:50 (Ref:1468748)

As it goes you will see muppets queuing up when a bus lane is empty throughout the day as they don't actually understand you are allowed to use them outside of restricted hours. Mugs.

Anyway, being the smug soul that I am, I would say TFL agreed it was pathetic and have not proceeded in this case. Common sense prevails for once.

garcon · 24 Nov 2005, 10:46 (Ref:1469162)

You lucky git!

It always amazes me that drivers... actually let me start that again. Today's drivers are so utterly, unremittingly STUPID that it doesn't amaze me at all that they can't seem to read the restricted hours displayed on bus lane signs. I've lost count of the times I've been flashed at by other road users (buses and taxis in some cases) because I've dared to use a 7:30am to 10:00am/4:30pm to 7:00pm bus lane at midday or midnight. Illiterate lemmings.

**Woolley** · 24 Nov 2005, 14:03 (Ref:1469315)

I nearly got caught out when they removed the times from the one in Walsall. It used to end at 9:30, but no more.

peteconnors · 14 Dec 2005, 01:11 (Ref:1483578)

Craig: is the picture taken from the front, and have you sent it off yet?

**Craig** · 14 Dec 2005, 14:25 (Ref:1483938)

It was taken of the front of the truck and, no, didn't send it anywhere except the bin...

SpawnyWhippet · 14 Dec 2005, 22:41 (Ref:1484302)

I had one of me on a motorbike taken from a camera on the central reservation of a dual carriageway. I was still accelerating hard from traffic lights and the front wheel was about a foot off the ground. I was very proud of it until my insurance increased by 200 pounds per year on the bike and 300 on the car because of the 3 points on my license. (seems unfair for doing 70 in a 60 - a guy who broke into my race car trailer and garage got just a warning - he caused several hundred pounds of damage!)

peteconnors · 15 Dec 2005, 02:27 (Ref:1484392)

Use the Alex Ferguson excuse: you had the s**ts and needed to get to a bathroom post haste!
If the pic's ever taken from the back of the car just send the ticket back unsigned: you are not legally obliged to sign it, as it would be incriminating yourself, and they can't tell who was driving at the time, so it will be dropped!

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