Jenson: good #2 driver

[QuickSilver]

Eddie (the mouthpiece) Irvine said he considers Jenson a #2 driver because he got "killed" by Trulli and Fisichella.

Personally I like Jenson's smooth style and I think he's still improving.

The question: Is he good enough to be #1 at BAR Honda.

Thoughts?
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[shambles]

Personally I don't think he did get "killed" by Fisi, although he was poor - and what is Irv on about, Jense outscored Trulli by a healthy margin in 2002, with some great performances.

To answer your question QuickSilver, I believe that Jenson is good enough - but he has to improve... a race win will do him the power of good.

PAUL

[BootsOntheSide]

I'd happily bet that Jenson will be more impressive against Rubens than Eddie ever was (and Rubens is at a much more advanced stage in his career now). Agaisnt Fisichella, jenson struggled, but I don't think he was putting enough into his driving at the time, and difficult cars usually favour more experienced drivers. As for Trulli, they were close on points, and Jenson was comfortably ahead until he was forced out (by Alonso, so few can say that was a mistake, especially as Trulli did so well in late 2003 and early 2004).

[Bononi]

Coming from a former #2 driver it becomes a little suspicious. I would say comparing to Eddie, Button has more potential.

[KE30MAN]

I think you're right Bononi. I will say however if I was a team head looking to win the WDC, Jenson would not make my shortlist.

[kipper]

Whilst it is fair to say that Fisichella outclassed Button at Benetton (2nd at Spa in a awful car compared to Button's solitary fifth), I don't think this view holds true for his other team mates. This team next year might be more appropriate for this type of evaluation as he would have had a year in a well funded, competitive team alongside a driver of a known high standard.

[OZ_HCR32]

But to be fair whgen he jumped ship from Williams he was jumping into teams where his team mates had already spent a season or two, so it would always be difficult to get up to the pace of your team mate.

That said i would think that Rubens will quickly catch JB and do a better job. Button is abit like Webber in that the past few seasons he hasnt really had a team mate to challenge him...Webber got Nick and it was a good yard stick....we will see what Rubens does for JB career.

[Kirk]

Eddie never was much good at assessing drivers. I can remember in his last year at Ferrari stating that he was the best driver in F1 after Schumi. And without any flutter in his tone .
As for JB. He's only in his mid twenties but he has been around awhile now and not much has changed lately at BAR. He needs a break-out year and a trip to the top of the podium to get out of that rut.

[JeremySmith]

I think it is important not to underestimate Jenson Button as a driver. Once he has his first win I feel that it will be the first of many, he needs the *car* that can help him get the job done.. Eddie is talking out of his rear end..Jenson is a far better driver than he ever was.

[OZ_HCR32]

Thats the thing though...most drivers out there can win the WDC if given the right car and team politics suit, ie not a blatant No.2.

But last year there were momemnts were Alonso showed he may be something very special, when in a deteriorating car pulled it all together.

Ill sit back and use Rubens as a yard stick i think, as im not sure how good/great Button is.

[JeremySmith]

That is not true...Eddie Could not get it done with a Ferrari were Michael could and did. Eddie Irvine has said several times that Michael is the best in the world..All this baloney about number one driver and number two is complete nonsense which I just do not go for. If the Honda produce a winning car, which I have no reason to believe that they wont, then*Honda* will start to win races.

Irvine is calling JB a "number two" because he was never ever a match for Michael, therefor making himself feel better about himself.

[Thorstone]

Jenson Button will show us next season,
that is Rubens Barrichello who is good #2 driver

[cmifsud]

Jenson isn't a number two driver, but he doesn't seem to have the qualities of a true number one driver who can lead the team and take them to the top. There are also question marks about his work ethic and application he possesses to the task at hand

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Kirk

I can remember in his last year at Ferrari stating that he was the best driver in F1 after Schumi. And without any flutter in his tone .

But seriously, I thought he was only joking, I mean he could only be joking, right ?

[OZ_HCR32]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

That is not true...All this baloney about number one driver and number two is complete nonsense which I just do not go for.

Perhaps i think team politics plays a bigger part then it realy does. But more then ever F1 is more about car then driver. So the teams more experienced race engineers/staff work on whose cars? Who gets the less experienced personnel? Come the race whose fuel/tyre strategy takes priority over the others?

Come testing and development which direction do they take when drivers happen to like different things from the car...budget permitting that should not be such a large part, but i have read drivers like Trulli, JV and Alonso, Montoya all like different things from their cars.

Then you have aero packages. Ok its been tested and found to work, but only one car can be updated with it for the next race (recognised No,1???). Or it hasnt been tested yet so a driver has to test it under race conditions(Poor recognised No.2 may get extra pace, may be slower)

In the case of MS and Ferrari, so many staff followed MS from Benetton, and the guy is obviously brilliant...and being in the 2nd car (as opposed to being the 2nd driver) must be tough especially when you hear the radio calls that you are not allowed to win the race. It may not be written into a contract but mentally it has to affect a driver

So thats some of my reasoning for why i put a lot of emphasis on internal team politics....

And for the record i dont think Button or Rubens should be a perceived No.2, No.1. I think it will be up to the respective drivers to get into a position mid season where WDC points suggests the other has to step aside and help the other.

I suppose all we can do is sit back and see

[mp356a]

Originally Posted by Kirk

Eddie never was much good at assessing drivers. I can remember in his last year at Ferrari stating that he was the best driver in F1 after Schumi. And without any flutter in his tone ....

Irvine, ha! I guess he already forgot about the Mika Salo incident.

I'd not take anything Irvine says to seriously. His biggest asset to F1 was always his mouth. I still laugh when I think about the time that Senna punched him in it.

[JeremySmith]

Well you you have done some *Nice* editing of my post.

I enjoyed reading your reply. You are quite right two drivers are not going to like the same characteristics about a race car are they? However much wind tunnel and track testing they do. Two cars, two drivers, two different setups..Not rocket science really is it? or maybe it is.. Two VERY skilled race drivers, some better at giving technical feedback than others I would think.

I know nothing about setting up a race car, but I would think that the concept is to try to get the chassis to behave as neutral as possible. Jenson appears to me to be a very smooth driver. Smooth and quick plus a *car* that has the goods, will provide race wins? No! One thing I constantly have to remind myself of is that F1 cars are all prototypes. It is going to cost him a great deal of money to stay at Honda next year, so I can only assume that he believes that they are on the cusp of winning soon.

Like you said "I suppose all we can do is sit back and see"

[OZ_HCR32]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Well you you have done some *Nice* editing of my post.

LOL... sorry if you feel the quote changes the basis of your statement...wasnt my intention

...i have no idea of the inner workings of a F1 team, only what i read which itself rife with misinformation. But internal team politics always plays a part. Think back to when Ralf and Juan were at Williams, and for some reason Montoya lost his race engineer to Ralf, and for a period of time fortunes swayed that little bit with Montoya slowing and Ralf finding soem pace. I didnt see either as a clear No.1 or No.2, and on paper they had the same equipment.

In my eyes the reality is that there will always be a driver that loses out, even if they are well resourced team, some engineers are better then others, and team principals sometimes desire one driver to do better then another, be it for sponsorhsip reasons, ; whatever im not sure.

Button and Rubens shoudl have equal billing, the only reason i wouldnt automatically assume Button getting the favour within the team is because De Ferran will be pulling for Rubens ???!!!??!!??!!???!

[Mark Webber]

I think Rubens will have his way with Jenson

[Ryan_Briscoe1]

button is no #1 driver.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Ryan_Briscoe1

button is no #1 driver.

I reckon Webber will have given a sigh of relief that he didn't go to Williams.

[KE30MAN]

Why Martin, because JB would be over-payed and detract from an already shrinking budget?

Good point.

[OZ_HCR32]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

I reckon Webber will have given a sigh of relief that he didn't go to Williams.

See, i dont really care who is the better driver...but my god i would love to know...and i suspect that both drivers would have enjoyed the challenge of competing in equal equipment...especially since at the start of last season Button was trashing Webber.

[Swiss]

Its amuses how Eddie pops up every so often and makes driver assessments .... its not as if Eddie himself will go down in the records as a great driver ( although I know he does have race wins which Jenson does not yet ) ...

The next season if not the one after as well are where Jenson has to know make his mark or become a driver who career will be moving down the grid. I think Jenson has what its takes and am excited to see how he stacks up against Rubens this year. As I've said before in other threads I don't think Jenson has been given the credit for his role within BAR the last few seasons. He's been the no.1 driver by a country mile as Sato was not upto spped even as a no.2. This has meant that Rubens has arrived he has a team mate who at last can help with this and someone also whom I think can help Jenson polish off his rough areas and push him consistently ....

[chunterer]

Bottom line:

Until he wins something he will always be a 'nearly man'