BTCC Budgets and Good Old Days Etc.

[R59]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Takes the field to 18 cars which is a respectable grid for any championship.

..... that runs on a 1/4mile oval

If the BTCC is "so good", it should attract 30 car grids at every round.

British Touring Car Crumpling Series...

Costs need bringing down further (including bodywork budgets!), and more cars will enter.

In the old days, the BTCC was more about privateers than manufacturers, and it thrived with big grids, and a good wealth of different cars.
Bring back the old Gp.A rules I say.

Rob.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by racing59

..... that runs on a 1/4mile oval

If the BTCC is "so good", it should attract 30 car grids at every round.

British Touring Car Crumpling Series...

Costs need bringing down further (including bodywork budgets!), and more cars will enter.

In the old days, the BTCC was more about privateers than manufacturers, and it thrived with big grids, and a good wealth of different cars.
Bring back the old Gp.A rules I say.

Rob.

Time has obviously played tricks with your memory. The BTCC has not has "full grids" for over 15 years!

Even during the 90's when it was the best in the world it only averaged about 22-24 cars.

Group A was got rid of purely because of their enormous cost. Manufacturers had to spend millions to produce special models of their cars etc. So how can you say that the costs should be reduced even further, when at the same time you want to bring back Group A regulations that were so hugely expensive that they had to be got rid of ? You just don't make any sense.

Oh, and if you dislike the BTCC so much, then why are so interested in it by bothering to read and post on a BTCC forum?
Sorry, but everything you said in your post is complete nonsense.

[touringlegend]

The BTCC is more about privateers now too that in many recent years of history.

Only 5 "works" cars, 13 privateers..

[R59]

I DO enjoy Touring Cars, and before Gp.A gave way to SuperTouring, I had it as a goal in my developent plan. SuperTouring came along, and there was no way I could find forty to fifty times the budget to build/run a car. I remember people running in the old 1600cc class able to run on a 15-20K budget, when it went to the 2L rules, you'd need 100K to make a start.

Now, if you haven't got 3-500K, forget any ideas about running at the front.
That's virtually GP2 budget!

It's probably more about (rich) privateers now because the place to be is the WTCC. At one time, the BTCC was the best class of field in the world.

It's a difficult one to call. There are a lot of championships out there that are competing for the budget pound. BTCC is too expensive in it's current form. It needs to be on-par with running an average GT, and there will be even more privateers.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-BTCC, it's just that calling it "Successful" with 15 cars on the grid is a bit of an oxymoron. The MSA were keen to cull championships that couldn't muster 16 car grids, yet their own jewel can't, and they haven't done much about improving it by tackling the root cause.

There. More nonsense for you.

Rob.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by racing59

Now, if you haven't got 3-500K, forget any ideas about running at the front.
That's virtually GP2 budget!

You are correct. It is more nonsense. Your figures are way out.

A GP2 budget is around $1 million and a front-running privateer budget in the BTCC is about half of what you said. If you had £200k you could buy a drive in one the top cars/teams (e.g. Dynamics) and win races. Mike Jordan would be operating on a budget of about half that you suggested, for example.

And if you want to put it into perspective of open-wheeler budgets, like you did, then a British F3 budget is £400k plus and for that you get virtually no profile or exposure. Or to do the British Rally Championship is about the same cost as doing the BTCC. Front running British GT's is easily the same as BTCC if not more.Compare that to a front running BTCC budget and the BTCC is a bargain.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

And if you want to put it into perspective of open-wheeler budgets, like you did, then a British F3 budget is £400k plus and for that you get virtually no profile or exposure. Or to do the British Rally Championship is about the same cost as doing the BTCC. Front running British GT's is easily the same as BTCC if not more.Compare that to a front running BTCC budget and the BTCC is a bargain.

If that's the case why aren't more people doing BTCC?

[touring fan01]

simple. some people prefer sports cars, or rallying or open-wheelers. not everyone wants to do touring cars.

[BootsOntheSide]

World championships, when active and with manufacturer support, always draw attention away from domestic championships. The BTCC's perceived golden era was during a time with no international championship of any kind. As for relative value to other championships, Mike Jordan's decision to move across now is a clue as to which series gives more attention.

[R59]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

You are correct. It is more nonsense. Your figures are way out.

A GP2 budget is around $1 million and a front-running privateer budget in the BTCC is about half of what you said. If you had £200k you could buy a drive in one the top cars/teams (e.g. Dynamics) and win races. Mike Jordan would be operating on a budget of about half that you suggested, for example.

And if you want to put it into perspective of open-wheeler budgets, like you did, then a British F3 budget is £400k plus and for that you get virtually no profile or exposure. Or to do the British Rally Championship is about the same cost as doing the BTCC. Front running British GT's is easily the same as BTCC if not more.Compare that to a front running BTCC budget and the BTCC is a bargain.

Touring fan, $1M = (as near as makes no odds) £500K. To run TWO cars in GP2, a global championship supporting F1.

Therefore my figures were on the ball.

Rallying always cost more than racing, no doubt about it. While the mechincal specs are in some cases lower, the rebuild frequency is far higher due to "meetings" with immovable objects & scenery. Take your Subaru Impreza, arrange a visit to a deep ditch. Re-shell, new suspension, etc...
Or just clip a wall and rip off a corner on a tarmac rally.

As Bootsontheside has said, the British GT series now attracts little attention because in many people's eyes, it's been going in the wrong direction, and isn't being managed right.

As Alan Raine has pointed out, the BTCC is NOT a bargain in terms of budget. Yes it has greater exposure per £ of budget, but it's a high cost for a bit of primetime TV.

I'll shut up before I write war & peace.

[touring fan01]

Sorry, but your GP2 figure is plainly wrong.

That is per car, not per 2-car team.

A single front-running GP2 car needs a budget of close enough to $1m....go and make some calls to the top teams and ask them the price if you don't believe me.

There is simply no other four-wheel motorsport in the UK that offers anything like value for money v prime exposure (TV and other media) that the BTCC does. That's just plain indisputable fact. Of course if prime TV exposure is of little interest, then naturally there are a huge amount of race series you could do for far less, but certainly not in the upper echelons of the sport like the BTCC.

Given the choice between the exposure the BTCC gives for a £200k budget, and any other series for the same money, then there is no contest.

[Hazard]

Has gone a bit away from the Xero entry this one.

Interesting points being raised but since this is a to-and-fro on teams budgets and strong opinions on other championships, I'd like to close this now.

Maybe someone would like to ask Mr Gow in his forum what a true BTCC budget is. For those able to run teams, hey, I'm sure he'd tell you in person.

There's two HPI Lexii going dirt cheap in Autosport last week too y'know