Increasing participation in motorsport

[Dennis.Doyle]

The MSA, ACU etc are looking at widening participation in motorsport - see:

http://www.msauk.org/site/wbs/news/V...2&category= 0

As part of this there is a 5-minute survey at:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=269173104860

It's quite painless.

I'm sure I'm as cynical as the next man, but no point in moaning about them not doing anything/doing things wrong if you can't be bothered answering their questions & saying what is wrong. BTW, plenty of scope for saying it all costs too much, how to encourage volunteers etc.

[Joest956]

quick and easy, worth doing.

Have posted it on other forums too.

[Suze]

Good survey - hope they take it seriously and act on the results.

[ADEE]

Agreed - but what is the objective(s) of the survey?

The immediate actions for ensuring the UK produces a string of world champions is potentialy quite different to encouraging mass particpation etc..

[Tim Falce]

Agreed there, it did seem to flit from basic entry clubbies to how do we get more people at the top in F1 and BSB and then back again.

[Dennis.Doyle]

Originally Posted by ADEE

Agreed - but what is the objective(s) of the survey?

The immediate actions for ensuring the UK produces a string of world champions is potentialy quite different to encouraging mass particpation etc..

I couldnt possibly comment on the objectives - after all I might jeopardize my licence.

Re. the second point, you are right there would most likely be different actions for different objectives, but there could also be some that would serve both, e.g. mass participation leads to a bigger pool of talent from which more champions will come?

Maybe it's a question of politics really, i.e. decide what you want then give them good reasons why whatever actions you choose to advocate would make everyone happy?

[bella]

hmm, i gave up on that. the first few questions seemed to have been written by someone with minimal knowledge of the issues surrounding participation. there also didn't seem many valid answers i could agree with, and it seems to be aiming to prove that cost is a major issue in the lack of participation rather than investigating to see whether there was any other issues.

[chezza]

Isn't cost the major issue though??

[jonners]

Originally Posted by bella

hmm, i gave up on that. the first few questions seemed to have been written by someone with minimal knowledge of the issues surrounding participation. there also didn't seem many valid answers i could agree with, and it seems to be aiming to prove that cost is a major issue in the lack of participation rather than investigating to see whether there was any other issues.

I agree. I gave up too. The questions are so badly formulated that you are driven down roads where the answers are meaningless.

For example - what one single thing (apart from funding) will change the motorsport world and make it a better place??? Ok - I'm being flippant but there's never ever ever going to be one single thing.

One obvious point I think is that the blue book applies to competitors at all levels. So the guy wanting to get going in sprints and hillclimbs receives a copy and just glazes over in seconds. As I did - and spent a load of money needlessly. Have a look at the Hillclimb forum where there have been queries recently about capacity classes in the blue book.

I think the MSA should have a forum like this on their website

[Suze]

and lack of promotion of what is available for less pennies too, I think....

[bella]

Originally Posted by chezza

Isn't cost the major issue though??

not necessarily. it might be an important issue, but the survey seems to give the impression that it's the *only* issue. for example, what about those who have families and don't want to give up their time with their kids? or what about the risk? it might be minute, but there are people out there who find it too big a barrier.

i don't really see the point in a survey that already has its conclusions drawn. if it's a true investigation into something, it should start from a clean sheet. what could possibly put people off from joining? all i see there is a stack of stereotypes.

/soapbox

[ADEE]

There certainly seemed to be the implication that cost was the main hurdle but that this could be solved with additional funding. That's probably the right answer for F1 hopefuls but for others with more modest aspirations (like just having fun!) a better answer surely is just to redcue the cost?

But then those areas of m/sport with the lowest cost are typically those furthest removed from MSA sanctioning!!

Unsurprisingly this view was difficult to express in the survey.

[lifeof]

Were there not plenty of spaces for 'other' comments ? Do not pass up any opportunity to make your voices heard - nothing said = no chance of action, however slim.

[Suze]

Sort of lifeof - some of the questions were just boxes for you to write whatever you felt / thought rather than a given answer where you can only tick a box.

[AU N EGL]

On the left side of the pond we have many many car clubs host High Performance Drivers Events ( HPDE). Some of the car clubs are Marque events, BMW, PCA, Audi, MAZDA or indepedent clubs. Most events allow any car make to participate.

These events allow ppl to sign up and come out to a race track and learn the fine art of High Performance Driving. Not quite racing, but the basics of racing with an instructor in the passanger seat, and class room time.

These events have a fair number of ppl who decided to get into W2W racing.


Great way to introduce new ppl to art of motorsports.

[Biff]

However badly you think the questions are worded, or if you think there is a hidden agenda where the questions are guiding you towards an inevitable answer, in my opinion we must fill in this survey and get our own comments down.

Let them know what you think of the questions. They might be well meaning but not understand the sport as well as we do. Tell them.

It is a very rare occasion where we get asked our opinions on our sport, take the opportunity and put down what you really think, even if you just fill the boxes with replies that bear no relevance to what is being asked.

End of rant!!

[Stephen Green]

I seem to remember their being an e-mail address at the end if you wanted to add more personal comments?

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by bella

not necessarily. it might be an important issue, but the survey seems to give the impression that it's the *only* issue. for example, what about those who have families and don't want to give up their time with their kids? or what about the risk? it might be minute, but there are people out there who find it too big a barrier.

Surely if you thinks its too dangerous or you don't have time you aren't actually looking at the sport anyway.

Originally Posted by bella

i don't really see the point in a survey that already has its conclusions drawn. if it's a true investigation into something, it should start from a clean sheet. what could possibly put people off from joining? all i see there is a stack of stereotypes.

Well, out of interest, what do you think would put people off joining in? Surely, cost, time, location, lack of publicity (in other words not being aware of the accessibility) are all relevant and not unnaturally would put many off.

[ADEE]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

On the left side of the pond we have many many car clubs host High Performance Drivers Events ( HPDE). Some of the car clubs are Marque events, BMW, PCA, Audi, MAZDA or indepedent clubs. Most events allow any car make to participate.

Over this side we have simialr events typically called Track Days. As a recent resident of the US i'd say they are much more frequent, less marque focused and less 'rules' based in the UK.

They do represent a great way of geting onto a race circuit. But in the same way the HPDE days are not sanctioned by the SCCA or similar the days in the UK are outside our regulating body, the MSA.

If only the MSA would take a leaf out of the SCCA's book in terms of simplyfying class structures etc. I think we'd get many more people participating over here in the UK.

[HoTWire]

Hi folks,.. I was a bit shocked by the cost to go racing that I saw in the Historic forum,.. commented on a thread there, but it is probably best here.

I'm co-running a show at Mallory park in August, we are turning part of the circuit into a sprint so we can have a kind of Run What Ya Brung, but with corners. How whole principle behind the event is "get involved" weather that be with show cars, modified street cars, or motorsport. However circuit racing is a really difficult sell to people, if you consider I can go to Santa Pod and enter a RWYB for £30, or go to a track day for £125-175,.. it makes a seasons circuit racing seem like a very costly endevour, particularly when a lot of people are already on tight budgets.

I don't see that "motorsport" is on a downwards trend, but I see that circuit racing is... if you consider drag racing, drifting and autotests as "motorsport" then they are all on the up. Why? Because they are cost effective.

Peter (Mallett) had the point that the relative cost of circuit racing probably hasn't risen,.. but then I wonder if the entry costs may not have risen, but maybe the costs to be even remotely competative have. Or perhaps the costs have always been expensive, but until the last 5-10 years there hasn't been so much in the way of alternatives.

The modified classic/retro scene in this country is growing and growing, these people are interested in cars, in racing cars and most of all using their cars. Right now should be a great period for racing, but it hasn't seemed to have gone that way...

[Stephen Green]

Although at the lower end of the budget 750's Saxmax and Ginetta Juniors both have good to full grids, so they must be doing something right to attract the youngsters?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by ADEE

Over this side we have simialr events typically called Track Days. As a recent resident of the US i'd say they are much more frequent, less marque focused and less 'rules' based in the UK.

They do represent a great way of geting onto a race circuit. But in the same way the HPDE days are not sanctioned by the SCCA or similar the days in the UK are outside our regulating body, the MSA.

If only the MSA would take a leaf out of the SCCA's book in terms of simplyfying class structures etc. I think we'd get many more people participating over here in the UK.

The SCCA this past year has finnally seen the Light about HPDEs and has started doing more and more. NASA ( National Auto Sports Association) PCA and BMWCC has been doing HPDEs for years as ways to train new ppl into the PBOC ( Porsche -BMW Owners Club ) races.

NASA has even started Drifting, time trials, ricer car shows to help the younger crowd get involved in motor racing.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

I seem to remember their being an e-mail address at the end if you wanted to add more personal comments?

Spot-on Stephen, anyone who couldn't be bothered to complete the survey missed a huge opportunity to give their opinions. My email got a reply within 24 hours from a Principal Consultant at the survey company about followup.
But then as a nation aren't we renowned for whinging rather than being positive?

[Al Weyman]

Peter (Mallett) had the point that the relative cost of circuit racing probably hasn't risen,.. but then I wonder if the entry costs may not have risen

Depends on your circumstances if you live and work in this country I think percentage wise you have far less free money than you had 20 years ago when entries were 40 quid. I think they are way way too dear now and a pro-rata price based on what free spending money people have living in this highly taxed country would be around £100.

[Dennis.Doyle]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Depends on your circumstances if you live and work in this country I think percentage wise you have far less free money than you had 20 years ago when entries were 40 quid. I think they are way way too dear now and a pro-rata price based on what free spending money people have living in this highly taxed country would be around £100.

Agree it depends on your circumstances, but don't forget there are twice as many cars on the road today as there were 20 years ago. That's clearly disposable income - so "we" are hardly poorer. Since it neatly spans governments of both persuasions it's not a party-political point either.

Shame this doubling isn't reflected in motorport. I wonder if the MSA isn't losing touch, r.e. drifting as mentioned above, especially with the "younger generation". Anyone got the stats to hand on how the numbers of MSA licences of different types have varied over the last decade or two or what the age profile is?

BTW I think EVEYTHING is too expensive.