Thoughts re: marshalling BTCC

[CookieMonster]

Question: is it possible that it will get to the point where Steve Neal's comments ring true?

I started marshalling 5 years ago (after seeing an advert at, guess what, a BTCC event), and for the first 2-3 years, I did club meetings but also a lot of BTCC, because it seemed like a 'big' and 'prestigous' meet to do.

I think I did one BTCC event last year, and I am not yet down to do any this year. I think, after the behaviour of Matt Neal and the comments of Steve Neal, I am very unlikely to add any BTCC meetings to my list for this, or future years. And this is not out of spite or venom, just that I have limited time, energy and money resources, and I feel that I should spend them with clubs and drivers that most appreciate it.

From the comments I have read here and on other forums, I feel that I am not the only one who could be re-thinking their decision to marshal BTCC. I have the feeling that new marshals will still want to do the 'big' meets, but if the more experienced marshals are being told that they are not 'elite' enough for the BTCC, is it possible that the more experienced marshals will stop attending BTCC meetings leaving a gap in the experience?

This is a genuine question, and I would be interested to hear anyone's thoughts (if you are still awake by this point in the essay... ).

CJ

[Stack]

Originally Posted by CookieMonster

....... and I feel that I should spend them with clubs and drivers that most appreciate it.

Could not have put it better myself.

[Eddy V]

I've marshalled at the odd BTCC event, but stopped doing them for the very same reason as I stopped doing F1, GT's, DTM and other high class events: we are not appreciated by most of those snobby drivers, teams, organising clubs,....
Plus you need to park far away even when there is a near empty paddock available, ticket control is four times as bad as for other events. Why? We are still the same people who were allowed in the week before without any proper check. A quick "hi, how are you mate" and in you go.

I'm there to enjoy myself, not to be insulted or treated like a piece of garbage. I'm fed up with standing trackside for hours for one or two cars or even nothing to happen. Hence I only do the clubbies, friendly atmosphere, usually friendly drivers and clubs that really make you feel at home.
I've marshalled (observer) for over 30 years, did all possible corners at all possible events at all possible tracks, so it is not a case that I'm afraid I do something wrong. (I do that all the time )

Give me money to do a big event at a big track, or let me do a clubbie at a small track at own cost: the latter will get it.

[SRPhoto]

I did the UK F1 once then even after bad experiences of “friendliness” thought I would give it one more go the following year, then gave up! Colleagues on post were great on both occasions but organisers and other “officials” just make hard work of things, along with all the standing around and FIA palaver. To give an example, on both of the above occasions me, my wife and her sister attended the event and all stayed together in our caravan. I should point out that my sister in law paid full price for her weekend ticket and all I was asking for at sign on was an extra camp site wrist band to allow all three of us to have trouble free access in and out of the camp. Well from his reaction and attitude you would think I had just asked for a VIP pass to the BRDC hospitality suite, needless to say I did without “my” pass and gave them both to my wife and sister in law.

So…. Currently I love the club meetings and will attend the odd BTCC and F3/GT meetings, for now anyway!

[Stuart Hill]

This thread seems to raise it's ugly head so often that it's getting boring.

But that does not mean that I disagree with it, far from it. I too am a member of the "Stuff the prima-donas, I'll do a Clubbie" school of marshals. As most of us will say, we don't do "It" for the money but we do appreciate when someone says "Thank-You". This can take the form of any of the following:

Some money at sign-on
A wave from the drivers on their slow-down lap
a beer in the bar afterwards
subsidised food or drink
a thank-you letter
a decent lunch break (notice I did not stipulate 1 Hour)
free hats or t'shirts
a lunch box

ANY OF THE ABOVE are very much appreciated and will work on their own.

The problem seems to be;

some championships (although we KNOW that they read this forum) have chosen to do nothing towards helping or keeping marshals. The TV dollar is obviously stronger and until televised meetings are cancelled, due to lack of safety cover, the situation will never change.


So......... what are our options as marshals?

1) Accept the situation for what it is and volunteer with the full knowledge of how you may be treated;
2) ***** about it in forums such as this but then still attend the same meetings
3) Raise your concerns with the organisers of the meeting
4) Be more selective in the meetings you attend and thereby enjoy your hobby more
5) Give-up marshalling and take-up something else
6) Cancel some of your previously volunteered for dates but let the organisers know why
7) Do nothing and wonder why nothing has changed.


We are ALL Volunteers and as such, have the complete freedom to do as many or as few events as we chose.

WHY you do so or not is up to you and I may (or maynot) see you there.

[The Fat Clerk]

Give me clubbys anytime, loads of cars & loads of friendly drivers. At Mallory if you are on Posts 8,9 &10, the drivers leaving the circuit drive past the posts waving their thanks at the Marshals. When I wave back my Mrs reckons it looks like a little boy waving goodbye to his toys!

A couple of years ago, I landed up as I.O (it's a long story!) at Abbey for a Britcar Race on the International circuit. We had the Safety Car out to enable us to deal with a very demolished Ferrari, as the train passed me (I was in the middle of the track) Kelvin Burt in a Porsche actually stopped and started effing and blinding at me for the speed we were clearing the track at. If you know my size, you'll understand that he drove off pretty quickly when I spoke back to him and made it clear that if I could get to him in time he was comming out through the window!

Clubbys rule ok!

[mark_l]

Thoughts re: marshalling at BTCC

Think again!

[Stuart Hill]

Originally Posted by mark_l

Thoughts re: marshalling at BTCC

Think again!

Why Mark?? care to elaborate?

[Teletubby]

Can I just point out that you are all condemning an entire package and club because of comments made by one person who represents one team, NOT the entire organisation!

[CookieMonster]

Originally Posted by Stuart Hill

This thread seems to raise it's ugly head so often that it's getting boring.

I agree that the 'which meeting do I marshal / not marshal and why' discussion has been done many times. My post was to get people's opinions on a more specific question with regard to what has happened lately with Steve Neal's comments on the BTCC.

Basically, do people think that the comments made may well lead to the exact situation that Steve Neal seems to think is in place now?

I will try not to be so boring next time

[CookieMonster]

Originally Posted by Teletubby

Can I just point out that you are all condemning an entire package and club because of comments made by one person who represents one team, NOT the entire organisation!

I am not condemning it, merely choosing to give my limited time to meetings where I feel that marshals are appreciated. All I wanted from this thread was to find out whether the comments made could affect the number of more experienced marshals who attend BTCC meetings.

I agree that the comments made are not necessarily representative of everyone in BTCC, but it sometimes seems that a) negative comments are publicised more often than positive in the media that goes to the masses and b) marshals appear not to have the platform, again in the mass media rather than on specialised websites such as this, to defend themselves. But that is for another thread - this one was purely started because I was interested in the question that I posed at the outset.

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by Teletubby

Can I just point out that you are all condemning an entire package and club because of comments made by one person who represents one team, NOT the entire organisation!

You are quite right. However, we all know that the minority are able to give the majority a very bad name. I think this thread proves that.

[Teletubby]

thank you Shiela, exactly the point I was trying to make but more eloquently put!

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by Teletubby

thank you Shiela, exactly the point I was trying to make but more eloquently put!

Why thank you, kind sir!

I assume that you are NOT driving the van back to base but are sitting in the passenger seat?

[Stuart Hill]

Originally Posted by Teletubby

Can I just point out that you are all condemning an entire package and club because of comments made by one person who represents one team, NOT the entire organisation!

sorry to disagree TT but................ have you actually read my post ?????

is there anywhere that I mention or condemn any team/ driver or championship by name???

I fully understand where you get your thoughts from (another thread) but please do not associate them to this thread.

[Teletubby]

Stupid me, thinking that a thread entitled "Thoughts re : Marshalling BTCC" would be about marshalling at BTCC meetings!

[Teletubby]

Originally Posted by Sheila M

Why thank you, kind sir!

I assume that you are NOT driving the van back to base but are sitting in the passenger seat?

Nah, DarrellB is driving and Red Baron is sleeping in the back of the Rescue Unit!

[Red Baron]

Originally Posted by CookieMonster

I
Basically, do people think that the comments made may well lead to the exact situation that Steve Neal seems to think is in place now?

Hi CookieMonster,

To answer your question......

I don't think the situation you refer to will materialise. True, there are a number of marshals on this forum who are vocal about despising BTCC and promise never to marshal it again. However, there are also a number of experienced marshals who are happy to attend BTCC and regularly do so. For example: - Teletubby, DarrellB and I are going to 7 of the 10 rounds this season and would happily go to the other 3 if there was a need for our rescue unit. Ken Watts and co go to all rounds as does Dorothy et al from startline/pits. There are also other faces that I regularly see but I don't know names.

Incidentally, the reason I go is because I enjoy the racing (yes, yes, I know it is not everyones cup of tea, but that is not the topic for discussion here).

I don't think that I am treated any differently at BTCC than I was at the clubbie at Donington yesterday. Generally we (rescue) have a shorter lunch at BTCC than other marshals as we have to clear the pit lane following the walkabout but to me, that is no hardship and no different to occasionally having to forgo a lunchbreak at a clubbie in order to meet the circuit curfew. It's not the norm, but it happens. As long as the person in race control thanks the marshals for their time and effort at the end of the day that is all I need and, in my experience this happens at every meeting, BTCC included.

So, if those of you that hate BTCC stay away and those of us that like it continue to go we should all be happy


Rosie

[Red Baron]

Originally Posted by Stuart Hill

we don't do "It" for the money but we do appreciate when someone says "Thank-You". This can take the form of any of the following:

Some money at sign-on
A wave from the drivers on their slow-down lap
a beer in the bar afterwards
subsidised food or drink
a thank-you letter
a decent lunch break (notice I did not stipulate 1 Hour)
free hats or t'shirts
a lunch box

ANY OF THE ABOVE are very much appreciated and will work on their own.

Ha ha, so you don't do it for the money but you do it for the free beer, lunch or hat/t-shirts........it all amounts to the same thing in my opinion

I find your post a little ironic as the only meeting I have ever come away from with a free t-shirt is BTCC (from pit lane walkabout); I have only ever been given money at sign-on at AMOC or F1 and I have only ever received a letter of thanks for attending the meeting from the MSA after the F1. In my experience you could tick off most of your list by attending the big meetings!!!

Personally, I don't expect anyone to contribute to my upkeep as a marshal. I marshal at the meetings I like the sound of and I appreciate a good days racing....which leads me on to a subject that people seem to forget.....

As a marshal I don't have to pay to watch the racing and I am also able to use my spare ticket to let someone else enjoy it for free. In BTCC terms that is £40+ worth of free racing. Assuming I go to the 7 BTCC meetings I have planned for the season that is £280+ of free racing.

If I add in the F1 that is approx another £200+ of free racing (based on 2 x general admission).

Add in the clubbie meetings I am doing and I guess that could easily add another £200 of free racing.

So far that equates to £680+ of free racing.

BARC are my principal club and via their stamp/card scheme I reckon I will also challk up a pretty sum to spend or claim back. I will also be entitled to a free ticket at the Big Night out next year (worth another £50 or so).

All in all, I reckon that adds up to around £800+ worth of free racing and 'perks'.

Not bad in my opinion, but obviously not enough for some people

Rosie

[White flag man]

I personally like to do both BTCC/FIA and club meetings.
Club meetings are very friendly, but the big meetings do have their own atmosphere.
My comment about this thread is that the point that the Neals are arguing about had nothing to do with marshals. The order to move the car came, quite firmly and precisely (over radios and scanners) from race control.
Mr Neal obviously does not want to blame them, because he knows what the answer will be. Hopefuuly Those in charge will support the marshals and punish the Neals quite severely for their rediculous behaviour.
The Neals already have a band of elite marshals who do BTCC meetings, and hopefully they will all be at Thruxton next weekend.

[CookieMonster]

Originally Posted by Red Baron

To answer your question......
Rosie

Thank you!

It was just a point of interest for me - I don't have a deep-seated hatred for BTCC or any other series - I just have to decide which meetings I do or don't do based on some sort of criteria.

I guess what I was trying to establish was just how much impact such comments would make, and whether Mr Neal had maybe shot himself in the foot a little.

I'm glad that the comments of one person won't ruin the series for everyone else, after all, it was BTCC that got me into this marshalling lark in the first place!

Cheers for your comments.

[gachjoel]

How intresting to read this as i`m doing my 1st BTCC meeting ever at Thruxton this weekend.

not that it will sway my thoughts on marshalling at BTCC as i have loved the series for many a year,as a spectator(more couch potato)of course.

At the BARC big night out earlier this year,to what i would call a pleasure,was to be seated on the same table as MATT JACKSON..
What a true gentleman(even tho he insisted on getting the beers in),but was very gratious of the work that marshals do,and had an invite to his garage at Thruxton(hope he remembers).
But should the comments of 1 or 2 people sway your thoughts,unless you have encountered it first hand,well thats a different opinion.

Just remember,and next time they crash by you,ask them for there opinion again and see if it changes..........

[White flag man]

We should certainly not tar all BTCC drivers with the same brush.
I'm sure Matt Jackson will remember and if you want to meet a true gentleman, you couldn't do better than Mike Jordan.

[numbersix]

Originally Posted by CookieMonster

I think, after the behaviour of Matt Neal and the comments of Steve Neal, I am very unlikely to add any BTCC meetings to my list for this, or future years.
CJ

BTW What were the comments of the said Neals?

[Sticker Rub]

I wonder how many principles will go out of the window lured by the offer of a free set of overalls? <ducks>