against, now for JPM

economy_waffle · 5 Aug 2001, 08:04 (Ref:126052)

ok, ok. u guys need to be loyal to one driver. b4 my computer died, i was like one of i think 2 ppl who supported JPM and had faith in him since the start of the season. Now since qualifying at hocknheim, everybodys like "yeah i always sed he was really good, and i liked him" im talking SPECIFICALLY to the **** journalist in "autosport" (nigel roebuck? - the one with the 'pointy' nose). Now, after monaco he was aying how JPM is theee worst rookie of ALL TIME!!!
wot my point is, dont always get carried along by the tide - i.e dont be a glory hunter!!! (i.e "hes the best" then "he's ****")

Damon · 5 Aug 2001, 10:19 (Ref:126077)

Amen to that!! I hope the other person you refer to is me

. I have stayed strongly behind JPM from the start of the year and have had some hard fought battles trying to defend his position during his little waver a few races back. Now everyone is suddenly on the band wagon following a superb few performances. Make up your minds people, esspecially those of you calling him a "dork" not so long ago

.

jonboyG · 5 Aug 2001, 10:36 (Ref:126080)

I don't think that's strictly fair. Not watching CART, I didn't really know how good he was, and I was hoping, along with most of the UK perhaps, that Coulthard would finally deliver, but he hasn't, and Montoya's sheer talent has shown through since Brazil. After a while, it's time to get behind him.

Wrex · 5 Aug 2001, 10:47 (Ref:126084)

I still think he's a dork.

Granted we have seen a couple a flashes on the CART Montoya, but thats it. He still has a big mouth, still gets out qualified and out raced more often than not by Ralf, and still makes stupid mistakes. But it's mainly about the big mouth.

I'll stay off the bandwagon for a little longer thank you.

Thats not to say I won't get back on it, but until he consistantly shows me he can drive like he did in CART, I'll keep puting my money on the Schumi brothers.

Ralf's Girl · 5 Aug 2001, 10:54 (Ref:126086)

Amen to that, Wrex.

Don K · 5 Aug 2001, 10:56 (Ref:126087)

I didn't know how good he was either.

But so far he managed to score 1.25 points/GP.
That is almost as good as Barrichello, Frentzen, and Irvine.
Pretty good!

Of course, Rubens and Heinz-Harald have not been driving in a top team for more than half of their F1 carreers ...
But even if we take that into acount, I still do agree JPM appears to be one of the 15 best drivers currently on the grid.

jonboyG · 5 Aug 2001, 11:44 (Ref:126099)

Quote:

That is almost as good as Barrichello, Frentzen, and Irvine

None of those drivers will ever win the WDC. Reubens is an overrated cry baby, Frentzen's a good driver but not in the top league and Eddie's ego is a lot larger than his talent.

Don't get me wrong, I like HHF and EI (can't say the same about RB), but Montoya is the next Senna, a perfect foil to Schumacher's Prost.

Don K · 5 Aug 2001, 11:54 (Ref:126101)

Quote:

Originally posted by jonboyG
None of those drivers will ever win the WDC. Reubens is an overrated cry baby, Frentzen's a good driver but not in the top league and Eddie's ego is a lot larger than his talent.

So you're trying to tell me, that the drivers whose results are only marginably better than Montoya's results, don't have a lot of talent?

Don't get me wrong, I do like HHF and RB (can't say the same about EI), but I don't think any one of them will be WDC. But their average results in F1 have been better than Montoya's, even though Montoya has been in a top team only!

I think Montoya is a big talent.
But I think his results have not been spectacular yet!

jonboyG · 5 Aug 2001, 12:00 (Ref:126104)

Don K -

Yes, but out of those retirements, how many have been his fault, and how many have been due to reliability?

Despite what Public Enemy said, in Montoya's case, believe the hype.

RALFANATOR · 5 Aug 2001, 12:19 (Ref:126113)

I'am with WREX

TCF has shown some speed. Yes but he has shown he also can finish a race and Ralf does out shine him more times than not true that the car / pits have been less than great this year but Ralf has been in the same car and done a better job . The point table speaks volumes , eveytime TCF come up in these threads people keeps saying how great he is and how he would of one that race BUT...... and it is always the same everytime .
Yes TCF will win races but lets save the GREAT'S until he does win one or at least finish . Currently I think he leads the WDC in DNF doesn't he?

even if TCF wins a couple of races this year and I do mean IF
on the rookie table TCF has been outclassed by MR KIMI both on and off the track IMO

Don K · 5 Aug 2001, 12:23 (Ref:126115)

Quote:

Originally posted by jonboyG
Yes, but out of those retirements, how many have been his fault, and how many have been due to reliability?

Looking at the cold facts:
Ralf retired 6 times, Juan retired 9 times.
So I'ld say: approximately 3.

Or: Juan spun off 3 times,
so I'ld say approximately 3 (2 if we don't count Malaysia).

I think he's still learning.
He might be a title contender in 2003,
maybe even in 2002,
but at this moment every other driver of the top teams is ahead of him in the WDC.
Did you notice that Rubens is 25 points ahead of him?
Even Häkkinen, who is having a very bad year, is in front of him.
So until now, he's JPM is nothing more than a talent.

jonboyG · 5 Aug 2001, 12:36 (Ref:126117)

I never said he was going to win the WDC this year. And of course, with 9 DNFs he's mnot going to have many points, but next year, you watch, RS will be totally outclassed.

Sodemo · 5 Aug 2001, 12:47 (Ref:126119)

Well I still and always have felt that JPM is and would be a good F1 driver.
Even his bad form a few races ago didn't deter my support for him.

He is good for F1 and its great to see a character in the sport.

Its just a shame he seems to get all the bad luck at the mo'

PS do any of you think that JPM's 30-sec pit stop had anything to do with his engine eating itself?

jonboyG · 5 Aug 2001, 12:48 (Ref:126120)

In a word, yes.

Damon · 5 Aug 2001, 12:51 (Ref:126122)

JPM has already come of age. In the last three races or so he has out classed Ralf by a long way, particularly in Germany. He has cooled down a great deal following Canada and I have not seen or heard anything if the same sort of "big mouth" comments from him since. This means that not liking him based on comments he made a month ago is going to become a very out dated reason very quickly.

RALFANATOR · 5 Aug 2001, 13:04 (Ref:126128)

Quote:

Originally posted by Sodemo
PS do any of you think that JPM's 30-sec pit stop had anything to do with his engine eating itself?

IN a word NO

Damon · 5 Aug 2001, 13:15 (Ref:126132)

Yet if it were the other way round

. Come on, it has been all but concluded by the Williams techies that the long stop caused the engine failure. Patrick Head even went to say that JPM was not running the engine at any higher revs than Ralf when he was going into the distance, Monty was not over driving the car.

Nicholas · 5 Aug 2001, 13:22 (Ref:126137)

Being a world champion doesn't stop you from being a prat

Liz · 5 Aug 2001, 13:28 (Ref:126138)

I have supported Montoya since the day he replaced Zanardi at TCG (when a lot of people were squalling that the "dadblamed furriner" should be fired and some American boy hired in his place) and I still support him. I don't know how the battle of Montoya v. Ralf will end up, but I can foresee them both winning championships only not on the same team.

Unlike Prost, JPM will not allow his teammate to run all over him and merely beat him on the track. Sooner or later he will do a Mansell and grab Ralf by the throat, and then we'll see.

economy_waffle · 5 Aug 2001, 17:27 (Ref:126211)

Quote:

Originally posted by nicholaswhite
Being a world champion doesn't stop you from being a prat

yeah like MS

Raven · 5 Aug 2001, 18:41 (Ref:126234)

Quote:

Originally posted by economy_waffle
im talking SPECIFICALLY to the **** journalist in "autosport" (nigel roebuck? - the one with the 'pointy' nose). Now, after monaco he was aying how JPM is theee worst rookie of ALL TIME!!!
wot my point is, dont always get carried along by the tide - i.e dont be a glory hunter!!! (i.e "hes the best" then "he's ****")

Roebuck has always supported JPM. I don't think he has ever written from an anti-JPM stance.

senna12 · 6 Aug 2001, 02:32 (Ref:126413)

I have also volunteered my support for JPM this year, preaching a little patience. It was obvious that when the BMW wasn't expiring, Juan was trying very hard. He appeared to be using a technique used by Gilles, namely, starting by going over the limit quickly, noting that limit, and not exceeding it again, with a few mistakes thrown in. A very steep learning curve he probably felt was necessary, to establish a reputation, as it were.

For those of us who have watched him in North America for the last few years, you would have to have been blind or stupid not to realize the talent this fellow has. Racetime, as opposed to retirements early on, will bring him closer to Ralf on setups, much quicker.

Paul Page of ABC tv in the U.S. said once that Juan had "the perfect F1 mentality", and would be very successful with Williams. The battle between the best set of teammates in F1 is only going to get better. (on and off the track!

)

mac · 6 Aug 2001, 02:45 (Ref:126415)

I did know how good he was, being a bit of a CART freak. And I knew he would be successful in f1. I don't particularly like him as a fellow, but there is no doubt in my mind he is a brilliant driver. However, I do support him sticking a rocket up the f1 fraternity, and showing them what RACING is all about.

f1grandprixshop · 6 Aug 2001, 02:50 (Ref:126418)

JPM is very talented, but he'll need few more years for maturity in F1. he's only a rookie

next year might be his year, but DC will be more hungier next season, and so it R.Barrichello. Needless to say MS, MH, RS, and of course EDDIE IRVINE

Jay · 6 Aug 2001, 03:46 (Ref:126428)

I supported JPM when he first came into Cart, but after seeing what an ******* he is around the paddock, and having that confirmed again and again by others that have had the misfortune of running into him around the track, I find it very difficult to chear for him. He is very rude to his team members, the media, his fans, and even his girlfriend. He never has time to sign autographs, and even tells his fans to flat out "get lost". (Which he did say to someone who dared asked the great Juan for an autograph in Toronto in 2000) And if you think JV has a big mouth, you haven't heard anything yet... I think the fact that Juan already thinks he can win the championship next year speaks for itself.

All that said, he is still a very talented driver, who definately has a career in F1. However, I hardly think he is the next Senna or the next Schumacher.....lol He can't even beat Ralf on a regular basis. In fact, Button was ahead of Ralf last year a lot more than Juan is this year.... I still wonder if Frank might have been wiser to have stuck with Ralf. No doubt Jensen would have won by now...