Renault testing new suspension

avsfan733 · 14 Dec 2002, 04:20 (Ref:449587)

Was reading the days testing news and stumbled on this little tidbit. http://www.f1i.com/articles/ARTICLE_477431.html Supposedly Renault is testing a new suspension with automatically adjusting camber. I thought that active suspension systems such as this were banned. Also if my memory serves me, Mercedes showed a car with such a system a few months/years back around the auto show circuit.

Jukebox · 14 Dec 2002, 04:38 (Ref:449594)

Camber's function is more related to the angle of the tire in relation to the track, that's why Michelin had been questioned too because it has everything to do with the tyres manufactured and according to the site you've pasted..it's variable and has nothing to do with the suspension setup. This is more towards mechanical grip

avsfan733 · 15 Dec 2002, 05:13 (Ref:450168)

unless im mistaken, I think that mechanical grip has a LOT to do with your suspension setup and Camber is a very integral part of it

**GTRMagic** · 15 Dec 2002, 05:20 (Ref:450169)

Camber under load is important, to ensure the maximum tyre contact patch is on the road at all times.

Having said that, I doubt this is an active suspension in terms of the FW14b Williams, with the active ride control determining ride height, suspension damping and a zillio other things they didnt tell us about...

Its almost a passive suspension in the manner you describe as it does not appear to anticipate the change in the road, at least from what has been described in the article anyway.

Is this any better or worse than the passive steer cars like the Mazda MX6 or Mazda 929 or some VW Golfs that made an attempt to adjust the rear suspension under load to improve handling...?

Mr Squiggle · 15 Dec 2002, 06:21 (Ref:450183)

It isn't clssified as active suspension as it is not an active device but rather a REactive device. From what I can gather it uses suspension loads from the opposite wheel to camber the wheel during the cornering phase. The wheel then returns to it's more upright position in a straight line to maximise braking and acceleration.

Also, from some of the pictures I have seen it seems to be doing whatit is meant to do.

Pretty clever, really.

ParkLife · 15 Dec 2002, 14:44 (Ref:450413)

Things are only considered Active if they require an external power source (maybe additional would be a better word than external).

This system is completely Passive.

And yes Mr Squiggle, it is pretty clever. Just about sums up Renault Sport that, pretty clever.

**Spudgun** · 16 Dec 2002, 00:10 (Ref:450746)

The system is totally mechanical with no software used (or power as said by ParkLife) so it is passive.

I remember seeing the FW14B active suspension and all it consisted of was a small hydaulic ram on each corner you could hold in your fist.

Personaly I thought it was dangerous at the time. When it was first pioneered in the late 80's, glitches in the software threw drivers off the road at dangerous speeds in testing. The suspension would either go rock solid or bottom the car out mid-corner.

I hope it's something that is never returned to.

Snrub · 16 Dec 2002, 01:04 (Ref:450765)

Pfft! My RX-7 has dynamic (passive) camber and toe.

Although, most people into racing disable the toe alteration because it effects the driver's ability to feel at the limit. I believe the '93-02 models had only the camber adjustments.

Jukebox · 16 Dec 2002, 03:03 (Ref:450791)

There's two types of camber settings in a open wheel race cars.

The positive camber - For oval shaped circuits like the Indy race and since only one side will turn, then both sides would have different settings. (When the bottom part of the wheel are further apart from the top - great straight line grip)

The negative camber - When both wheels have to turn a lot and this is the usual settings. (opposite of the + position - great cornering grip)

What Renault might have achieve is having a variable camber whereby it'll be smart to adjust from negative to positive and vice versa according to the track condition (straight and corners).

avsfan733 · 16 Dec 2002, 03:10 (Ref:450796)

thats the way i read the article and based on the "smart" comment i still think it implies an active suspension. The camber is considered a suspension setting and so adjusting it would be an active suspension. I can't see a passive system such as those on the RX-7 et al being used when the suspension (to quote the article) "by automatically moving the camber into optimum contact with the tarmac."

Also does anyone remember the car (i think it was mercedes) a few years ago that made the rounds on the show circuit with a similar technology?

Jukebox · 16 Dec 2002, 03:48 (Ref:450801)

If it has anything to do with software controlled changes of the ride height while on the race track then it'll be considered as illegal. These has got to do with springs, packers, dampers, castor and to a lesser extend, the anti-roll bar which can be adjusted from the cockpit.

Variable camber cannot be considered as an active suspension. Or it might be another loophole in which FIA hasn't thought of?

Jukebox · 16 Dec 2002, 03:54 (Ref:450803)

I attach this pic to show the difference between positive and negative cambers. It's only a change of the camber angle, no suspension parts are involved and the rideheight does not change at all.

Champ69 · 16 Dec 2002, 11:41 (Ref:451012)

I am not to sure if this (adjusting camber) is legal.

ParkLife · 16 Dec 2002, 12:37 (Ref:451062)

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be. It is not Active, there is no questions about that.

For some reason people here seem to consider everything that is not conventional or traditional illegal. I applaud Renault for their innovation on both the engine and the car!

**Adam43** · 16 Dec 2002, 13:25 (Ref:451099)

[quote]Parklife
For some reason people here seem to consider everything that is not conventional or traditional illegal. I applaud Renault for their innovation on both the engine and the car!
Good point.
Maybe it just depends which team has it, as to wheather it is illegal

Anyway I see no reason why it should be illegal.

Jukebox, I love the top pic! Looking good

Jukebox · 17 Dec 2002, 07:31 (Ref:451635)

Am only making an assumption, can't wait to see them on track to see whether the theory is right or not but got to love Renault for innovations

Champ69 · 17 Dec 2002, 11:22 (Ref:451724)

Would four wheel steering be legal?, bendable wings?. At any rate Mr Dennis will try to ban it.

ParkLife · 17 Dec 2002, 11:43 (Ref:451738)

Four wheel stearing and flexible wings are both banned.

GTV27 · 18 Dec 2002, 03:22 (Ref:452317)

Camber variation on turn is already commonly in use by most road cars - its call Ackerman (?spelling)

The outside wheel gains negative camber and the inside wheel loses it as the steering is turned, both to ensure the tyre tread stays on the road as the car leans. Not sure if this is common in F1 though? The other way to gain camber is through geometry change in suspension travel, but given an F1 car must have only 30mm or so of travel, this wouldn't be much use.

Does anybody have any ideas about how the camber would be varied?

ParkLife · 18 Dec 2002, 09:01 (Ref:452476)

I have a few thoughts but I think I'll think them through a bit more before I share them

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