Irish Vees - Round 1 Kirkistown 31/04/07

daveheavey62 · 2 Apr 2007, 11:36 (Ref:1881885)

Kirkistown: the cheapest place to race in the world! Only 75 euro per race lap given last weekend's vee 'championship' round!

Can anyone enlighten me as to why the libre got a 6-lap restart after they caused a red flag? Considering their race took place after the 2-lap vee race?

I wasn't up there so I'm going on what people tell me so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Doc Hollywood · 2 Apr 2007, 12:12 (Ref:1881909)

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveheavey62

Kirkistown: the cheapest place to race in the world! Only 75 euro per race lap given last weekend's vee 'championship' round!

Can anyone enlighten me as to why the libre got a 6-lap restart after they caused a red flag? Considering their race took place after the 2-lap vee race?

I wasn't up there so I'm going on what people tell me so please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm hearing the same thing back. I like Kirkistown but thats an absolute farce. Apparently it was the CoCs decision following the 1st lap crash.

I feel particularly sorry for the guys who qualified directly into the final, they would have only seen two full laps of competitive racing all weekend after testing on Friday etc.

Re-run maybe????

Jennifer_ni · 2 Apr 2007, 12:46 (Ref:1881937)

I think it was worked out on the basis that the time taken to clear up what ever the red flag incident was would decide as to how many laps the restart would be. If a real mess was made then you got a two lap sprint restart and if it was just something small to be cleared then it was up to the coc as to how many laps were given. Not a very fair system i agree!

EvilPumpkin · 2 Apr 2007, 12:57 (Ref:1881944)

I'm not sure, but I was under the impression that the number of laps the restart would be over, if one was required, was agreed at the lunchbreak - it's just an impression I got - could be totally wrong.

Whilst it's unfortunate - not just for the racers who I'm sure were extremely disappointed - but for anyone who was watching the race - it's just the way some days go.

For various reasons, the event was running way behind schedule. Two quite serious incidents after the lunchbreak put us back even further. I believe the Sportscar incident was fairly messy and I can assure you that the incident during the first Vee race was far from trivial! At one point, we were running over an hour behind timetable.

I know that we were so tired getting off post that we ended up having to stop on the way back to Dublin and check into a hotel. It was a very long and busy day.

Doc Hollywood · 2 Apr 2007, 13:32 (Ref:1881965)

I think its fair to say that it wasn't the Vee drivers fault that things ran behind time.

With the the Vee leaders lapping in around 1min07sec it only would have taken an additional 5 minutes to have made it a 6 lap restart.

Not exactly a time killer.

And I personally think a 2 lap sprint creates far more chance for accidents than a 6 lap race. It opens up a world of do-or-die moves if you only have 2 laps to get passed someone.

EvilPumpkin · 2 Apr 2007, 14:32 (Ref:1882001)

never said it was their fault - or anyone else's for that matter. Just offering my view on the day.

thunder1001 · 2 Apr 2007, 14:34 (Ref:1882002)

I think its a disgrace. As far as i know, its open to appeal as a championship round due to it not being more than 50% of the scheduled race distance.

And remember the last race of the season last year was cut short by 6 laps to a 6 lap race after a crash, yet the races afterwards had their full races.

I see this as a real two finger salute from kirkistown after the vee drivers helped them out so much by travelling up to vote for them late last year.

I too feel very sorry for the people who qualified straight through to the a race, maybe a partial refund or reduced rate for the next trip up there?

EvilPumpkin · 2 Apr 2007, 14:36 (Ref:1882005)

Does anyone actually know why the decision was made, who made it and who it was agreed with?

Has anyone actually spoken to the CoC or the Class Co-ordinator to find out?

beekay · 2 Apr 2007, 22:23 (Ref:1882336)

The CoC said it at the briefing about the 2 laps if it was red flagged, then i think someone at the front mentioned about the rules of 50% but i couldn't hear his reply

EvilPumpkin · 3 Apr 2007, 07:45 (Ref:1882483)

Ok so I'm right then, it was mentioned at the drivers briefing. I thought it was.

That being said, they really need to get a mike and a PA for those things - you can never hear everything that's being said.

So the next question is, if that decision was made ahead of time, why and who was it agreed with? Which again, is a question for the CoC and/or the Class Co-ordinator. Presumably there's a reason.

thunder1001 · 3 Apr 2007, 09:38 (Ref:1882576)

it was not agreed upon as we were told it maight happen.then someone did mention that its not 50% race distance so it cant be classed as a championship round.

EvilPumpkin · 3 Apr 2007, 09:53 (Ref:1882585)

Not agreed upon by whom? As far as I'm aware, race meetings are not run on a voting system.

If it was announced at the drivers' briefing and it was then done, then it must have been agreed between the organisers of the event and the Vee organisers.

For the second time of asking, has anyone actually spoken with either the CoC or the class co-ordinator to find out why this happened and what the reasoning behind it was?

daveheavey62 · 3 Apr 2007, 14:29 (Ref:1882733)

Can anyone confirm whether or not the libres got a 6-lap restart??

EvilPumpkin · 3 Apr 2007, 15:03 (Ref:1882750)

Can't confirm - there were so many issues due to the rolling start that I lost count. Because of the various problems with communicating to drivers and sorting out the warm up lap, it got rather blurred.

Now that was an interesting incident. Cars coming round for a rolling start (first time) and a car with Vee on trailer decides to drive across the live circuit.

Good job our starter has excellent reflexes or that could have been extremely nasty.

***MagnetON*** · 3 Apr 2007, 15:08 (Ref:1882753)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilPumpkin

Cars coming round for a rolling start (first time) and a car with Vee on trailer decides to drive across the live circuit.

I thought it was rather funny that a Vee could cause a red flag for a race it wasn't even IN!!!!

blackfalcon · 3 Apr 2007, 17:33 (Ref:1882836)

Yes Indeed it was a 6 lap restart for the Libres. I was watching the lap counter at the start/ finish line to see, as i think the Vee's were robbed but knew the Libres wouldn't be.
It's typical small class bashing (even thought the Vee's are one of the biggest in Ireland) that goes on everywhere in motorsoprt.
Once the race was underway it would only have been 4-5 mins extra to bring the race to a reasonable lenght.

blackfalcon · 3 Apr 2007, 17:43 (Ref:1882841)

I knew I had the results somewhere. I found them in my anorak pocket:

Formula Libre
1 Eamon Matheson (T5 Ninja) 6 laps in 7m 11.96s (75.61mph); 2 Darwin Smith (March 722) + 03.73s; 3 James Lyons (Van Diemen FX);

Formula Vee
Race two: 1 Ray Moore (Leastone JH002) 2 laps in 2m 21.64s (76.86mph); 2 Paul Sammin (Sheane FV99) + 0.11s; 3 Robert Casey (Leastone JH002)

Robert Casey must have stood on a few toes, He was listed as Ivan in the qualifying times, and as driving a Leastone in the final.

daveheavey62 · 3 Apr 2007, 21:13 (Ref:1882946)

The entry fee for libre must cost more than the vee entry fee....

av8rirl · 3 Apr 2007, 22:33 (Ref:1882980)

Well as a Vee driver, I think it was a farce and don't think the result can stand as a championship round. I do think that the class rep should be taking a stiffer approach to the situation. Saying that Vee drivers brought it on themselves is not really the answer most drivers will be happy with!

HOWEVER.... look at it from the other side... most Vee drivers got 14 laps of racing. This brings the average cost of a race lap down to one of the cheapest!

***MagnetON*** · 4 Apr 2007, 07:53 (Ref:1883157)

Quote:

Originally Posted by av8rirl

HOWEVER.... look at it from the other side... most Vee drivers got 14 laps of racing. This brings the average cost of a race lap down to one of the cheapest!

And as for the ten that went from qually direct into the final, it's your own fault for being too fast!!!!

EvilPumpkin · 4 Apr 2007, 08:05 (Ref:1883170)

For the third time of asking

Has anyone spoken to the CoC and/or the Class Co-Ordinator to find out the reasoning behind this?

If yes, please post the answer - THEN this thread will be a discussion of issues.

If someone has asked the question and is waiting for a response - please let us know.

However, if neither of the above, then this thread is simply a waste of time. If you don't care enough about the issue to make a phone call or send an email, then why are you wasting time complaining about it on the internet?

NoelR · 4 Apr 2007, 11:21 (Ref:1883287)

The Open FF1600 race was reduced from 15 laps to 8 laps and there were no red flags. Nobody was happy with this either but the schedule was way behing from the first or second race. 2 laps is a bet of a joke though.

daveheavey62 · 4 Apr 2007, 12:47 (Ref:1883352)

Sounds to me the timetable was a bit too full if they were running that far behind. Were they just really unlucky?? Or we're the incidents just mis-handled??

EvilPumpkin · 4 Apr 2007, 13:20 (Ref:1883374)

Motormouth · 4 Apr 2007, 15:15 (Ref:1883424)

Just had a quick look at the Vee regs on www.motorsportireland.com

"Each of the three Formula VEE championship races shall be a minimum of 12 laps duration, with 15 for the National Championship race (Lap means a full lap of the championship circuit."

Interesting.....................

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