F1 Tyre rule is mad and will not save money or aid competition

[Glen]

The tactic will be to build a tyre that can just about do the race distance - it will be up to the driver to run a perfect race to get it to last that long in prime condition. I very much doubt that a tougher tyre that can take sporadic abuse would be as quick over an entire race distance, so I assume that no-one will be interested in exploring that route.

Qualifying has to be considered too - that quaity in a tyre that means that you get one really fast lap followed by good tyre wear thereafter is going to be critical. To be optimistic I'll mention that Michelin have been by far the best at this trick to date - so we could get quick Micheliin cars qualifying well and then drivin to conserve tyres whilst Bridgestone cars have the dilema of do they push to get past and risk losing tyre performance or do they cruise for a while and see what develops. I think I know what the answer to that question is - the safer route of waiting... but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, at least it is better than a Ferrari getting past and going off into the distance.

[Sodemo]

Im thinking this new tyre rule might really work against Montoya, Alonso and maybe JV, all have attacking aggressive styles and they might find it very difficult to drive the last 60% of the race.

[neil_davidson2]

Originally Posted by Glen

Qualifying has to be considered too - that quaity in a tyre that means that you get one really fast lap followed by good tyre wear thereafter is going to be critical.

Do we know what constitutes a damaged (and replaceable) tyre under these rules yet? I'm wondering what happens if someone chucks the car in the gravel on the qualifying lap - can they change it or will they just have to scrape the debris off and go into the race with it like that?

[Dog Faced Boy]

Originally Posted by The Monster

Im thinking this new tyre rule might really work against Montoya, Alonso and maybe JV, all have attacking aggressive styles and they might find it very difficult to drive the last 60% of the race.

Im sure different componds will still be brought to the race. So agresssive drivers will have the option of harder tyres to compensate. They'll still be fast just at different parts of the race.

[BootsOntheSide]

The harder tyres wouldn't allow a driver to have as much grip as he needs though, especially an aggressive driver. The main beneficiary could be Jenson, as his style is renowned as being smooth and careful. Is there any way to inflict a puncture on a worn tyre, thus allowing a potentially-time-beneficial tyre replacement (ideally just before the final planned fuel stop)? Could any enterprising team come up with one before March?

[Dog Faced Boy]

[QUOTE=BootsOntheSide]The harder tyres wouldn't allow a driver to have as much grip as he needs though, especially an aggressive driver.QUOTE]
In days of yore Godyear used to bring 4 compounds to the track. Often close races would ensue between drivers on different compounds. So like I said a more agressive driver could still find grip with a harder compound which is better suited to a beasting.

[Red]

Well, they can test only 2 different compounds during an event and chose one.

[Glen]

Wrecking a tyre mid-race will do nothing beneficial, because I think you're no longer allowed to change tyres and refuel in the same stop. Smooth and consistent on borderline soft tyres will be the way to go. Finesse and good driving will be rewarded over knuckleheaded manhandling.

[Pingguest]

Especially at the beginning of the race, we will see less overtakings. Drivers don't want to drive the whole race with a flat spot. So, that will stimulate them to wait untill the pitstops. And having a puncture will cause even more trouble that it already did. When a tyre must be replaced, teams are not allowed to refuel. So, changing the strategy is impossible. Conclusion: the drivers will take less risks, and will do less overtakings.

I think the new rule won't make the teams do less pitstops. If the FIA wanted less pitstops, it had to abolish the parc fermé regulations, which bans refueling after qualifying.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

If the FIA wanted less pitstops,

I'm not sure this was an aim of the FIA.

[Raglanparade]

I think we will see 1 tyre change permitted by mid-season.

I think there will be a big accident from a tyre blowout... something Mansell-esque, and the FIA will do a backflip.

I dont see how tyres that need to be changed 3-4 times in 2004 will last a whole race in 2005. There isnt enough development time.

Imagine a big tyre blow out in Melbourne.. before turns 3, or into the fast chicane, or before turn 13 where Mika had a big off in his final year.

The cars are topping over 300kmh at Melbourne on the entry to Turn 1, Turn 3, The back chicane, and Turn 13. The run off for those corners is rather minimal and hasnt been increased since 1996. Mika was knocked unconscious in his 2001 Aus GP crash momentarily.

All im saying is that its gonna take a big blowout at Melbourne, and another Ralf like injury, and we will see tyre stops allowed again

[Kicking-back]

You almost sound like you want that to happen so you can say "told you so".

The tyres were often changed just the once in 2004, so it's hardly a great leap from that to not changing them.

[Sodemo]

They should make them only stop once for fuel, that would decrease lap times too, or not stop at all preferably...

[Glen]

Originally Posted by jasonhill9884

I dont see how tyres that need to be changed 3-4 times in 2004 will last a whole race in 2005. There isnt enough development time.

That in itself is not going to be any kind of problem. A 2004 Barcelona tyre would probably comfortably do a full race distance at Magny Cours, or somewhere else very smooth (I remember reading that a Monaco tyre would just about do a couple of laps at Barcelona because it is so abrasive (or was, anyway). Added to that, every tyre manufacturer knows how to make a more durable tyre - because all tyres, with the exception of drag racing ones etc, are harder wearing than F1 tyres!

The temptation to build very borderline tyres might present problems, but then it just comes back to the drivers to manage their tyres.

By the way, I don't really buy the theory that because everyone will be extra cautious there won't be any overtaking in the early part of the race. If a driver is inclined to be cautious he is just as likely to be cautious in defending as he is in attacking - so overtaking could just as easily increase as decrease.

Plus there will be fewer pitstops to wait for, so that is far less likely to come into play as a passing opportunity.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Glen

The temptation to build very borderline tyres might present problems

and this is a temptation that existed this year too.

I don't think the change in rules requires a tyre that is radically different from what we have now.

At first I was against the idea of not changing tyres. I still wouldn't have introduced it, but I am coming round to the idea. The only problem is how they work it when punctures occur, but these are unusual and small problems.

This is boarding off topic, but I would have liked to see a no-refuelling rule - perhaps with a no tyre change rule?

FWIW I would allow tyre changes at any time, but limit teams to two sets per weekend. So if you do change them it will be for a used set. This will make sure they only do it if they have to (rather than as a matter of course) and also allow them not to worry if they do get a big flat spot. It is better to not get a flat spot, but it isn't all over. In addition they could change and refuel. If it turns out they get an advantage changing to used tyres then fine, the FIA can look into it, but it won't be a big problem.

[Dog Faced Boy]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Especially at the beginning of the race, we will see less overtakings. Drivers don't want to drive the whole race with a flat spot.

Can you honestly see drivers starting lower on the grid not risking overtaking. The main chance they have a good race is to gain at the beginning of the race.

[Super Tourer]

Mike Gascoyne is asking for a clarification on some points regarding tyres.

The technical director at Cologne, formerly of Jordan and Renault, rhetorically asked the governing FIA if a team can swap tyres 'from left to right' during a pitstop.
Mike said in Motorsport News: "Does that constitute a tyre change?"

Gascoyne added: "(And) if you do need to change tyres because of a puncture, can you do that when you're refuelling, or afterwards?"

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=74672

My understanding is that you cannot refuel and change tyres at the same time.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Dog Faced Boy

Can you honestly see drivers starting lower on the grid not risking overtaking. The main chance they have a good race is to gain at the beginning of the race.

Drivers will always take some risk. I didn't deny that. I only said that drivers will take less risks.

I don't believe that the new tyre rules will increase the amount of overtakings. According to Mike Gascoyne 95% of the car's performance, including the tyres and engine, depends on the aerodynamics.

If the FIA really wanted to increase the amount of overtakings it could do two things. First, limiting the aerodynamics enormous. Or second, limiting the aerodynamics on the car enormous and re-introducing the skirts. The F1 also need more mechanical grip. So reintroducing the slicks and making the tyres broader is needed. But the new tyre rules will only decrease the mechanical grip.

[Andrew Hornsey]

How many of you remember f1 before Bernie mucked things up in 1982 by starting the whole refuelling/tyre change rubbish. Racing is all about the best drivers getting the best from their cars.

If people want to see the f1 pit crew (and I do know a few of them) changing tyres of refuelling, they could always do it on race morning to show how good they are. Perhaps you could have points awarded to the constructors championship for the fastest team (OK< I am getting flippant now :-)).

Look at the different driving styles back through the days when there were no tyre stops. The likes of Prost, who was arguably the smoothest driver ever, one, as did Gilles, who was never the smoothest!

My argument has always been that the F1 DRIVERS Championship should not be decided because one team is quicker at changing tyres than the other.

And with regards to safety, firstly why should it be more dangerous. There is plenty of time to produce and test tyres. These teams have data going back years, and are not daft.

At last we are getting back to proper racing in F1. Lets hope that refuelling gets banned, and we can finally see who is the best driver in the world.

[Kicking-back]

Andrew - it's Michael Schumacher

[Glen]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hornsey

At last we are getting back to proper racing in F1. Lets hope that refuelling gets banned, and we can finally see who is the best driver in the world.

As KB says - I think we've kinda worked that one out, don't you?