Big green cat is back?

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

Plus as long as it's called 'DTM' a lot of people will only give it a passing glance outside of the die-hard racing fans. Not the best place to pour money really.

I'd give anything to see Jaguar return to racing, providing it's in prototypes where they really shon last time around. I'll believe it when I see it though.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Is one of the Courage's not being run as a "Ford" with some funds from Ford France?

It wouldn't be much of a stretch to paint the thing green and call it a Jag.

That would be so wrong. You can't just paint something green and call it a Jag. They tried it with the Jaguar Racing F1 team and they tried it with the X-Type. Neither were Jaguars. There are no hard and fast rules of how to achieve it, but clearly that approach is wrong.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

That would be so wrong. You can't just paint something green and call it a Jag. They tried it with the Jaguar Racing F1 team and they tried it with the X-Type. Neither were Jaguars. There are no hard and fast rules of how to achieve it, but clearly that approach is wrong.

... strange as its worked so well for so many others... Funny how Porsche even won LM a couple of times with, well a Jag, sort of.

How about a Lola, called an MG? Or a Lola called a Corvette? Or a Lola called a Nissan? Or a Courage Nissan? Or......

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

... strange as its worked so well for so many others... Funny how Porsche even won LM a couple of times with, well a Jag, sort of.

How about a Lola, called an MG? Or a Lola called a Corvette? Or a Lola called a Nissan? Or a Courage Nissan? Or......

Did you consider the TWR 'Porsche' a Porsche, I certainly didn't.

I do think its a little different when a manufactuer commisions a car from a constructor as MG did with Lola however.

[Fab]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

How about a Lola, called an MG? Or a Lola called a Corvette? Or a Lola called a Nissan? Or a Courage Nissan? Or......

... a Riley or a WR called an AutoExe (really ridiculous this one)...

[cybersdorf]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

You can't just paint something green and call it a Jag.

Hasn't Prodrive painted something green and called it an Aston? Audi painted something green, too, and called it a Bentley. Porsche painted something white, but that's already been mentioned. Nissan painted something blue and called it - well, a Nissan.

What makes a car's identity? Its engine, perhaps. Except for the Bentley, all those mentioned above had/have "correct" engines. So never mind where the chassis comes from, if the motor is right it actually is what it is.

[bernard b]

Originally Posted by Fab

... a Riley or a WR called an AutoExe (really ridiculous this one)...

paintings were great, though (my opinion)

[Adam43]

It depends on the marque, its history, the reasons behind it etc... There is no hard and fast rules. Its not just engine, it isn't just who built the chassis (although these can help). etc...

What I will say though is if the initial thought from Ford is "just paint it green and call it a Jag" then by definition it isn't.

[paul-collins]

Ford engines were powering Jaguar Trans Am cars until recently (last year).

Badge engineering is Detroit's forte. Now that Jag is a Detroit marque, "just paint it green" is the essence of Jag. Look at the Taurus X-type.

[Adam43]

I feared that eventually we will just end up with a Ford-Jaguar car. Not far off with some of them. On teh other hand the new XJ is very much a Jaguar. That was developed as a Jaguar, it is just they needed Ford backing to invest in it. As for the lesser models, well the less said the better. IMHO.

This is partly why I feel there is no rush to get back racing. Jaguar often had racing breaks. They should do it when the time right and do it well.

[TheNewBob]

Jaguar do already have an engine racing at the minute, the V12 in the Lister Storm GT. So it kinda puzzles me as to why the trans-am cars had Ford engines... or are they not allowed V12's in that series?

I haven't seen any pictures of the new XJ - can anyone supply a link for a sneak piccy please?

[Adam43]

The 12 is a bit too long in the tooth now (fantastic engine though). Ultimate power from it is not a problem (depending what you are allowed to do), but it is too heavy and probably thirsty (even for a racing engine).

The Storm has done a great job of keeping that engines competitive life going, but you can see the signs of age there. Off topic, but have you seen how it is mounted in a Lister Storm? It is so low and far back the first time I glanced at a Storm without its bonnet I thought they had removed the engine!

The current Jaguar V8 would make a good basis of a production based racing engine. Now that is a trait of proper racing Jaguars.

[TheNewBob]

Must be hard to work on for the Lister mechies. I agree with you - it's old, but it's fantastic!

I take it that current V8 is in this new XJ model mentioned?

[Adam43]

You are not going to get me disagreeing with fantastic. It is a wonderful engine I love the sound, the torque, the beauty.

I do refer to the V8 in the XJ8 and the XK8 (or Rs). Supercharged or not it too is a good engine. It has been in Jaguar's range for a few years now. the only complaint with that is that Jaguar normal (as they should actually) exhaust makes it very refined and quiet! It does have the torque and characteristics of all Jaguar engines. It is well built and would make the great basis of a reliable and powerful production based racing sportscar engine. Like the XK 6 cylinder and V12 before it.