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25 Oct 2005, 08:05 (Ref:1442811) | #1 | ||
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Are they actually too fast?
With the change to 2.4 V8 upon us. I was wondering what people's opinion is, as to wether the F1 cars are actually dangerously fast? I thought they were usually at simialr speeds to the MotoGP bikes at the end of straights, and those riders are relatively unprotected.
Could the FIA have looked at other safety advances (such as in the chasis), or by signifactly reducing downforce to lower corner speeds and increase the breaking distance (so they had to brake earlier and hence didn't reach as high speeds)? |
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25 Oct 2005, 08:18 (Ref:1442822) | #2 | |
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I don't think F1 is too fast, or was too fast. The FIA are too concerned about safety. Take this year, F1 cars are at their fastest straight-line speeds ever, yet there were no real injuries, except whatever happened to Heidfeld. Reducing speeds by 20 mph or whatever is not going to prevent injuries. So no, I don't think F1 is too fast. It never can be, it's the pinnacle of motorsport, so really it should be the fastest motorsport, with the exception of oval racing.
Corner speeds were cut this year, which is why at most tracks the cars are slower than last year. And if you lower cornering speeds, there is no challenge through the better corners. If it was up to me, I'd have left it as it is, but it's not up to me! |
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25 Oct 2005, 08:40 (Ref:1442834) | #3 | |
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It's never been anything to do with straight line speed, only cornering speeds which have relentlessly increased over the years. F1 cars today are little faster in terms of top speed than they were 20 years ago, and more.
Tracks have greatly improved in terms of safety over the period so there is, IMO, no need to reduce the cornering speeds vastly, but given that the current commercial attitude within F1 is constantly putting drivers in cars because of their money rather than their ability, perhaps it's no bad thing? |
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25 Oct 2005, 08:43 (Ref:1442835) | #4 | ||
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If corner speed is the issue, wouldn't reducing downforce by a huge amount do the job far better then reducing the engine size then?
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25 Oct 2005, 08:44 (Ref:1442836) | #5 | ||
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25 Oct 2005, 09:14 (Ref:1442858) | #6 | |
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F1 is faster over a lap than it has ever been - and it's probably necessary to peg it back a bit to prevent things getting excessive.
As for the point about lowering corner speeds making it less of a challenge - I disagree. What's more of a challenge - so much downforce a corner is easy flat for everyone - or less downforce and the corner being flat for the most skilled and a lift for others? As for pay drivers - not even Midland are looking for those now. The depth of talent back to front is probably better than ever. |
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25 Oct 2005, 09:30 (Ref:1442865) | #7 | ||
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You can have good racing at high speeds, just look at Suzuka. I think that lowering cornering speeds isn't necessary, or straight-line speeds even. The reduction in downforce this year hasn't challenged the drivers much. The errors we were told would happen haven't. I'd say the main issue with F1 is the inability for cars to follow each other closely. Not overall speed. |
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25 Oct 2005, 09:41 (Ref:1442875) | #8 | |
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Don't you think the inability to follow closely is in part related to the fact they're too fast...
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25 Oct 2005, 11:46 (Ref:1442954) | #9 | |
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Not as such KB - too much aero grip is what makes overtaking difficult - you could compromise it with mechanical grip, keep up the same speeds, no rise in costs (less than designing brand new V8 engines anyway.....), and no safety compromise, especially as the tracks are more and more like playgrounds than ever, with no gravel traps in anywhere remotely dangerous and few fast corners.
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25 Oct 2005, 12:28 (Ref:1442989) | #10 | |
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I think F1 has reached the limit when it comes to corner speed. The human body can only stand so much. If the lap times get any faster it will likely be due to faster straight speed but I think there is a concerted effort to slow these cars down. Trouble is the engineers always seem to find a way to climb back up. That is one of the fascinations with this sport.
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25 Oct 2005, 14:10 (Ref:1443067) | #11 | ||
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even the g's a driver pulls when breaking at the end of a straight is huge. could the cars be faster...probably, but as kirk said, the human body can only take so much.
for me im amazed that some of these drivers race over the weekend and then are back at testing in a few days. truley remarkable! |
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25 Oct 2005, 14:32 (Ref:1443095) | #12 | |
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IMO if you reduce power significantly, as with 2.4 V8s or rev limited V10s, you would see downforce reduced as a consequence of getting rid of drag, in order to maintain top speeds.
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25 Oct 2005, 18:49 (Ref:1443263) | #13 | ||
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25 Oct 2005, 19:11 (Ref:1443275) | #14 | |
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I read somewhere that V8 engines will result in higher corner speeds.
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25 Oct 2005, 19:29 (Ref:1443291) | #15 | ||
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They are smaller, which may enable a better packaged car in terms of cornering speed. However there are restrictions on weight and centre of gravity which will aork against some of the improvements in packaging.
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25 Oct 2005, 19:30 (Ref:1443295) | #16 | ||
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If they want to reduce speeds in F1, the place they need to start is tyres as well as aero. The current tyre war is what has really upped the lap times over the last few seasons.
The thing with aero grip is whatever regulations are brought in the aero people always claw back the losses. I think I've read somewhere that the aero deficit compared to last year was only 10% by season's end compared with the anticipated 25%. On the other hand with tyres, if you bolt on a set of tyres with the same compound of rubber as a London bus there's not so much they can do about it. |
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26 Oct 2005, 09:10 (Ref:1443708) | #17 | |||
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This could've been a lot more impressive if I could actually find the qualifying times & the track it was done on, wouldn't it? But I agree - you'd think you couldn't go past putting an end to the tyre war to reduce speeds... With the added bonus of potentially cutting costs due to the lessened need for gathering tyre data. But I'm sure this has already been discussed |
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28 Oct 2005, 06:19 (Ref:1445706) | #18 | ||
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People always complain that F1 doesn’t need to be, or shouldn’t be, slowed down. What, it is not too fast because of all the measures that have been taken up to this point to keep speeds in check? What do you think will happen if the restrictions do not keep pace with car development?
One aspect that I think needs to be addressed is the braking, not only because the short braking distances make it hard to overtake, but because under 5G braking with your legs stretched out in front of you, the drivers begin to black out due to loss of blood supply to the brain. Yep, the limits of the human body. Better racing (presumably) would be a bonus. |
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28 Oct 2005, 07:06 (Ref:1445739) | #19 | |||
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That was the Brazillian GP last year IIRC, and the times set year after almost two season of development. |
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31 Oct 2005, 14:05 (Ref:1448391) | #20 | ||
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Bikes are infinetely more dangerous
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31 Oct 2005, 22:01 (Ref:1448823) | #21 | ||
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I agree entirely with Spudgun, top speed is practically irrelevant in addressing safety concerns, the way to approach it is to reduce corner speeds and increase braking distances. A set of wooden tyres that must last a whole weekend (excluding punctures) would hugely reduce corner speeds which is where most accidents occur. My F3 car used to use the same tyres for 3 - 4 meetings before they were discarded (mainly due to financial reasons though).
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31 Oct 2005, 22:27 (Ref:1448861) | #22 | |||
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Brum brum |
31 Oct 2005, 23:03 (Ref:1448901) | #23 | |||
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31 Oct 2005, 23:14 (Ref:1448910) | #24 | |||
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"Centipede: An ant built to government specifications" |
31 Oct 2005, 23:19 (Ref:1448916) | #25 | |||
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"Centipede: An ant built to government specifications" |
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