Racecar aerodynamics books - any good ones?

[CWT]

Hello people many people seem very knowledeable here so i thought i'd ask you guys/girls if there is a particular book on aerodynamics that is worth getting.

I'm looking for something around £20 and under, i'm really interested in aerodynamics (racing cars in particular) and would like to know more. I'd like something that is understandable (not too basic...or so hard that i dont understand it!)

If anybody could help me it would be much appreciated.

Callum

[zac510]

For £20 you might need to try and find something 2nd hand.

[Locost47]

Competition Car Aerodynamics by Simon McBeath is the best you can get - and it comes in under your budget, too! It has detailed explanations of the underlying physics but still focusses very much on the "so what can that do for me" side of things.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Competition-...6226622&sr=8-1

Next best, in my opinion at least, is Prof Joe Katz's book: Race Car Aerodynamics. It's great for explaining the fundamentals and I'd say pretty much every race car aerodynamicist has a copy of it on their desk, but personally I think it's in need of another modernisation.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Race-Car-Aer...ref=pd_sim_b_2

[JamesH]

I'm with Locost47 - I'm re reading the McBeath book at the moment and its good stuff (although I would have to say that Locost47 is very much more an expert in these matter than I so you really should go with his recomendations!)

James

[ubrben]

The biggest problem I have about both books (unless the latest version of McBeath's updated) is that neither of them contains an aero map in the form you receive from race car manufacturers.

If you get a manual for a GP2 car or the new A1GP car you will get series of tables showing downforce, drag, efficiency, and balance (front downforce percentage) vs. front and rear ride height.

The main exercise in engineering a car with significant downforce is adjusting the suspension (bump rubbers and packers or third spring) to control the dynamic ride heights to ensure the best performance; e.g.lots of rake in corners for downforce and less rake on the straights for low drag.

The fact that none of the these books explain this process using an aero map suggest neither author has actually setup a circuit race car at a high level.

Ben

[Locost47]

To be fair to both authors mentioned above I'd say it's highly likely that no-one would approve of them using any such data in a publication. Chassis manufacturers are extremely reluctant to release that sort of information unless you're paying for it. As you say, the aero map contains a huge wealth of incredibly important information about a car and it's worth noting that, even with no specific numbers, the shape of the contours can still tell you an awful lot.

That's not to say that they couldn't de-sensitise it by removing the labels from the axes, or perhaps do a series of artificially generated and generalised schematics which manifest different key aerodynamic characteristics or something. That would obviously be very useful for people.

[CWT]

Thanks alot for your help...Simon McBeath it is!!

[ubrben]

Originally Posted by Locost47

To be fair to both authors mentioned above I'd say it's highly likely that no-one would approve of them using any such data in a publication. Chassis manufacturers are extremely reluctant to release that sort of information unless you're paying for it. As you say, the aero map contains a huge wealth of incredibly important information about a car and it's worth noting that, even with no specific numbers, the shape of the contours can still tell you an awful lot.

That's not to say that they couldn't de-sensitise it by removing the labels from the axes, or perhaps do a series of artificially generated and generalised schematics which manifest different key aerodynamic characteristics or something. That would obviously be very useful for people.

Point taken, but for the customer race car manufacturers they have to release that data to the engineers working on the cars. Anyone with a decent network has access to that data such that it's no longer exclusive to the manufacturer.

Claude Rouelle presents aero maps from single seaters (I think F3000 or Lights) in his seminars. Anything in a racecar manual is de facto public domain, so if the car's obsolete (pre-spec floor LMP, 10 year old F3) you could at least present the saliant points.

Besides you could also do an aero map from scratch using straightline testing that would give you a feel for it. Danny Nowlan's recent article in racecar engineering discussed this and presented an aero map that was practically derived. He also talked about the rake required in different parts of the race track.

Like I said I firmly believe this is down to McBeath and Katz''s lack of practical race engineering experience.

Ben

[JamesH]

I don't know about Katz, but here is Simon Mcbeaths resume..

http://www.sm-designs.ndo.co.uk/

For someone with an alleged lack of practical experience, he does seem to have a lot of practical experience.

But then he is a writer.

[zac510]

I own both the books in question and while I'm not an engineer, I seem to think that they're more about engineering/designing the car from ground up rather than on the day race setup. A book that does the latter would have to be combined with setup of all the other factors too like suspension, ride height, etc etc.

[Locost47]

Originally Posted by ubrben

Point taken, but for the customer race car manufacturers they have to release that data to the engineers working on the cars. Anyone with a decent network has access to that data such that it's no longer exclusive to the manufacturer.

Claude Rouelle presents aero maps from single seaters (I think F3000 or Lights) in his seminars. Anything in a racecar manual is de facto public domain, so if the car's obsolete (pre-spec floor LMP, 10 year old F3) you could at least present the saliant points.

Besides you could also do an aero map from scratch using straightline testing that would give you a feel for it. Danny Nowlan's recent article in racecar engineering discussed this and presented an aero map that was practically derived. He also talked about the rake required in different parts of the race track.

Like I said I firmly believe this is down to McBeath and Katz''s lack of practical race engineering experience.

Ben

I'd disagree that racecar manuals are in the public domain if they are supplied with chassis as I think normally there's a clause in the paperwork somewhere about the confidentiality of supplied information. In the past I've found people very reluctant to supply the information and, if you've already got hold of it somehow, very reluctant to let you publish it anywhere in public. If a manufacturer is willing, however, then that's brilliant, and I agree entirely that it would be brilliant to have some of this stuff discussed by experts in technical publications.

In my opinion, for what that's worth, Katz's book is intended more as a general introduction to the subject of racing car aerodynamics and McBeath's book is that plus it starts to address the popular question of "how can I use this knowledge to make my own car faster?". I don't think what you're asking for fits into their remit as it's perhaps better suited to a more advanced and more targeted textbook, where the fundamentals (and the showy stuff added to attract and excite the more casual reader) can be skipped over and more detail given to the kind of advanced-level questions you've asked above.

Although I wouldn't presume to argue on his behalf, I actually know Simon McBeath quite well and there's no shortage of knowledge there, just a pragmatic realisation of what his publishers want (obviously what will sell more copies overall). Don't let that detract from my recommendation above, however, as the book is genuinely good enough not to need any favouritism. :-)

[ubrben]

Originally Posted by Locost47

I'd disagree that racecar manuals are in the public domain if they are supplied with chassis as I think normally there's a clause in the paperwork somewhere about the confidentiality of supplied information. In the past I've found people very reluctant to supply the information and, if you've already got hold of it somehow, very reluctant to let you publish it anywhere in public. If a manufacturer is willing, however, then that's brilliant, and I agree entirely that it would be brilliant to have some of this stuff discussed by experts in technical publications.

In my opinion, for what that's worth, Katz's book is intended more as a general introduction to the subject of racing car aerodynamics and McBeath's book is that plus it starts to address the popular question of "how can I use this knowledge to make my own car faster?". I don't think what you're asking for fits into their remit as it's perhaps better suited to a more advanced and more targeted textbook, where the fundamentals (and the showy stuff added to attract and excite the more casual reader) can be skipped over and more detail given to the kind of advanced-level questions you've asked above.

Although I wouldn't presume to argue on his behalf, I actually know Simon McBeath quite well and there's no shortage of knowledge there, just a pragmatic realisation of what his publishers want (obviously what will sell more copies overall). Don't let that detract from my recommendation above, however, as the book is genuinely good enough not to need any favouritism. :-)

Don't get me wrong I own both books and rate them - I just think it's a pretty big omission.

Ben

[Locost47]

Fair play - it is something that could at least have an introductory description, even if it's just to explain how important it is to race engineering.

There may be an Aerobytes article on it in Racecar Engineering in future and it could well find itself into the next edition of Competition Car Aero - so your point's definitely been taken.

[CWT]

Thanks to everyone that helped- ive got the Simon McBeathe one, its really good