Brabham BT21

[allenbrown]

AM199 is a good name for it. Techcraft is another good name. I'll stop now.

[Bryan Miller]

BT 21-48 is in Australia , has been for many years after import from USA , sold initially to Frank Williams U.K who dispatched to USA immeadiately [ info Duncan Rabagliatti].
This car carries AM 199 , I will view the car this weekend probably and double check AM #.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Alan Brown

Sold at the Bonhams auction at the Goodwood Revival Meeting was AM199.

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/publi...aleSectionNo=2

Having just read Bonhams blurb I wonder how they get away with such dreadfully inadequate histories! 3/10

[LoLola]

Originally Posted by Alan Brown

Sold at the Bonhams auction at the Goodwood Revival Meeting was AM199.

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/publi...aleSectionNo=2

Would seem to ge a decent price if it were a legit car but where would you run it with that engine? It would seem to be a bit scary to have that configuration in that chassis.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by LoLola

Would seem to ge a decent price if it were a legit car but where would you run it with that engine? It would seem to be a bit scary to have that configuration in that chassis.

Pretty standard config for the hillclimb specials of that era.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Roger Hickman in his BT21C. 1,000cc SCA. Supplied by Frank Williams where it was built up from parts by Tony Trimmer & Piers Courage. March 1968.

Posted with permission from Roger Hickman, copyright applies.

Andrew

[allenbrown]

Can any of the Brabham experts confirm whether that is a BT21 or a BT21C?

[Michael Martin]

I have Brabham 21B - 8 ihave had this car for about 30 years I know very little about its history Itis twin-cam engined but was fitted with an SCA at one time by a previous owner. I think it was a Swedish chap.

Can anyone help me with the history of this car?

I also have 2 Lotus 18 FJ's and a 20.

Thanks mike

[Chris Townsend]

Mike
Welcome. BT21B-8 is a car we've discussed on this forum before. Our excellent Swedish correspondent Hagis notes that this was the car in 1968 of Ulf Svensson, who used it in European F3 races; then it was sold to Torsten Palm for 1969, who also ran in Europe, and then in 1970 to Kjell Sääv who ran it only in Sweden.
This leaves us most of the 1970s before you acquire it.
Whereabouts are you based?

Chris

[Michael Martin]

Thanks Chris for your information.

I will check dates but this car has been in Ireland since early 70's. It was used here in Hill Climbs with SCA before being changed to twin cam.

The car came from a dealer in England less F3 engine - bought by George Scott who fitted the SCA for hill climbs

I think I bought car in late 1970's from George when fitted with the Twin Cam.The car has not been raced since 1980's.

My racing days are over so it is my intention to do a complete re-build / restoration when time permits.

Any further information on past history would be welcome.

Thanks
Mike

[Chris Townsend]

Mike

Can I ask if you are the Mike/Michael Martin who used to race a Mallock Mk12 in Ireland in the mid 70s?

Chris

[Michael Martin]

Yes.

I also built the Concord trials cars, a number or these still compete in English and local trials.

I have my Cookstown Sizzler U2 with de-dion. I sold this to a chap about 30 years ago but he neaver used it. He gave me a presant of it when he was clearing out his garage 2 years ago so it is yet another car waiting a re-build when I retire!. I still have most of the moulds for U2 fiber glass work.

Mike

[Michael Martin]

Chris

I think the car was bought from Bob Howlings in the 70's and came to Ireland

Mike

[Michael Martin]

Hagis

I own BT21 B-8 this car has been in Ireland since mid 1970's I think the car was bought from Bob Howlings les engine by George Scott.

I know very little about its history other than it came from Sweden.

[Michael Martin]

Hagis

I own BT21 B-8 this car has been in Ireland since mid 1970's I think the car was bought from Bob Howlings less engine by George Scott.

I know very little about its history other than it came from Sweden. Any help with the history of this car would be appreciated.

Thanks
Mike

[allenbrown]

Jonny Dimsdale's ex-Lambert BT21-30

[tracy s]

I am the owner of BT21c-11. Does anyone have any contacts for suppliers of BT21 body panels, suspension parts, or fuel cells? Thanks, Tracy

[allenbrown]

Welcome Tracy. I'm sure suppliers will come forward - we have one or two here - but in the meantime could you tell us what history you have for your car?

[Andrew Fellowes]

Japanese BT21 seen at the recent Eastern Creek historic races.

[Hagis]

Attn.: Mike Martin!

Sorry I haven´t been into this thread for som time. Been in England.
Just short about BT 21B-8. Ulf Svensson was 5th in the Swedish F-3 Championship 1968, then sold it to Torsten Palm who got 2nd in 1969, which was sensational for a "rookie", and remember Sweden was "something" in F-3 those days. Palm then sold the car to Kjell Sääf.
If you can forward your post address through 10 tenth to my E-mail, I will send you what I have about this Brabham.
Best regards, Hagis

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Following on from Hagis's excellent contributions, this is an effort to move forward the BT21/21Bs. ...

Some unaccounted early season owners [appearing March, so in chassis 1-27...
Carlos Gaspar, goes to Bill Gowdy 1969 then Gerry Cruise 1970, "Beattie" 1971

"Beattie" is Bill Beattie. He is listed as a DNA at the F2 Leinster Trophy in July 1971 in "his ex-Bill Gowdy Brabham BT21" (MN 15 Jul 1971 p31).

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

The Elton 21C is ex Nick Williamson, 21C-6, and goes to Peter Varley in 1971.

Just thought I'd nail this one as I was passing: MN 19 Aug 1971 p11 says of Elton "having sold his Brabham BT21C to ... Peter Varley".

[Bob Slusher]

Originally Posted by edholly

I am seeking help with the history of a Brabham BT21....AM288

Back in August last year this note was posted on this thread.

"At the Historic Races at Queensland Raceway last week-end, a BT-21C was advertised for sale as:- "1968 Brabham BT21C, ex-Philippe de Lespinay (USA), ex-Russ Baldwin (USA), unwanted restoration project."

Bryan Miller told me of the car and I ended up buying it. I have started on its restoration. Already the frame has had around 60 hours of work on it. It was bent and twisted very badly. It had evidence of some basic repairs at some time. In speaking with Bill Schlossnagel, who worked on the car in Russell Baldwin's ownership, he told me that he had replaced a couple of tubes, but that Russell did not go on with it. He still had a record of the car being in his workshop almost 20 years ago and had recorded a number of BT21C-14 but with the 14 crossed out and a 12 written beside it. However -12 is recorded as belonging to Nereo Dizane and lives here in Australia. Bill doesn't remember where these numbers came from. Russell does remember checking with a Brabham historian in the UK and being told that -12 was a car in existence in Australia

I have spoken with Philippe, Russell and another subsequent owner John Delane. Philippe told me he bought the car around 1984 to remove the gearbox and some other parts and sold the rest on. He said the car was light blue when raced as a single seater in the US and he bought the original bodywork for it in his ownership and that now remains with the car. It came to him as a sports-racer with an ugly yellow and red body, which he threw away. At that time John Hafkenschiel inspected it in Philippe's workshop and recorded that the AM No. was 288 and that it was a BT21-C, there was no chassis plate attached to the car. Philippe bought the car from the Northwest area, and there is a tag on the throttle cable with an instrument company in Portland Oregon on it, which would indicate this. Philippe remembers that it wasn't raced by anyone of great note, in his opinion.

Russell Baldwin did some research on the car that noted previous owners but this now appears to have been lost and Russell doesn't remember any of the details. In 2001 Russell sold the car to John Delane with the help of Jim Hall. After John sold the car, it came here to Australia and I subsequently bought it.

Any help anyone can give with the car's history would be very much appreciated

Ed Holly

Bob Slusher here from Oregon. With some time on my hands I took it upon myself to research and then ask around about BT21C in competition in the Pacific Northwest at that time. Odd what one can find if enough memory banks are jogged.

BT21C cars only:
Nick Reynolds, lead singer with the Kingston Trio raced the west coast out of Port Orford, Oreon.
Bill Monson, a dentist out of Kent, Washington ran in Seattle area.
Dewey Harless. I will have lunch with him tomorrow.

Pierre Phillips recalls during 1970-71 that a fellow who lived in Tocoma, Washington stuffed his Chevron so badly that it could not be rebuilt. He bought a older Brabham and crafted the Chevron to the Brabham to create a sports racer. Pierre could not recall his name, but it may be a lead.

Peace,

bob slusher
BT35/18

[edholly]

Bob,

You may have opened up a very good lead here. The car when bought by Philippe De Lespinay was on Chevron uprights at the rear and had a yellow and red sports racer body on it. I would imagine not too many Brabhams would be specifically altered in this way so this could very well be my car.

The original bodywork was hanging on a wall of a garage in Portland and Philippe bought it and put it with the car. This bodywork has had significant damage and has been poorly repaired, consistent I would say with damage to the front of the chassis.

I have tried to email you, but your server says fatal error, could you send me another please.

kind regards ... Ed

[allenbrown]

As a first sample from a fantastic archive of NZ pictures I've just been sent, here's Bert Hawthorne's mystery BT21 at Pukekohe in January 1969. At least I think that's what it is.


(Copyright Mike Feisst 2009. Used with permission.)

So, BT21 or BT21A or BT21B or BT21C?