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16 Aug 2009, 17:30 (Ref:2522420) | #26 | ||
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As for the single LMP class it really isn't that confusing. Don't any of you remember American Le Mans Series racing from the last three years? The two prototype classes intermingled with each other, not because of "big upgrades" a simple drop in minimum weight and potentially bigger air restrictors. At Sebring and PLM they will presumably run at the ACO weight and power levels.
It will be interesting to see how points scoring works for the LMP cars at those rounds. Perhaps they become special events like Le Mans? As for GTC, bring on more manufacturers. Hopefully that comes sooner than later. LMPC will be a nice field filler, hopefully it is a prelude to 2011 LMP2. Chris |
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16 Aug 2009, 17:33 (Ref:2522422) | #27 | |||
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Pretty much my thoughts also! L.P. |
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16 Aug 2009, 17:43 (Ref:2522427) | #28 | ||
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16 Aug 2009, 17:47 (Ref:2522428) | #29 | ||
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However, at Sebring and PLM, they're going to run to strict ACO weight/restrictor regs, as a separate LMP2 class- So how do you work out points for the ALMS LMP class? Do you take that based on a simple finishing order for the protos, irrespective of class? In that scenario, if I'm Rob Dyson, I'm not going to be happy about having to race at Sebring and PLM with my hands tied, running a less competitive car on P2 weight/restrictors, when in championship terms I'm actually trying to compete against Acura etc in an overall points table.... |
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16 Aug 2009, 17:55 (Ref:2522431) | #30 | |||
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L.P. |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:05 (Ref:2522434) | #31 | |||
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Chris |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:07 (Ref:2522436) | #32 | ||
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Don't see a problem there, it's not unusual that teams are tied after a few races early in the season, i.e. wone finishing 1st and second and the otherone the other way around after two races.
Yes, it's odd to see that after just one round, but it doesn't really create a problem. |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:09 (Ref:2522437) | #33 | |||
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Hey Speed-King. Ammended my post to what I believe is the actual scenario. But for everyone's benefit, here was my original post - though I doubt this will be the case, as they are scoring points in LMP1 and LMP2 not LMP.
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16 Aug 2009, 18:15 (Ref:2522440) | #34 | ||
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@ Jonerz: I think you had it right the first time around and brain-farted afterwards
But then, you are a native speaker and I am not, so who knows? |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:20 (Ref:2522443) | #35 | |||
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I think given my scenario, the points scored at Sebring would be in LMP1 and LMP2 classes. Thus, at the second round of the championship the teams competing for a full season would have zero points towards the LMP championship. That led to the thought in my mind that Sebring and Petit therefore would allow teams to score points towards the potential Intercontinental Trophy of endurance races. Chris (400th post!) |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:22 (Ref:2522446) | #36 | |||
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16 Aug 2009, 18:23 (Ref:2522447) | #37 | |||
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I wonder if the 'FLM' philosophy will work out in America a little better than in Europe, grid-wise. And if they're in the same regulations as the European FLM, who knows if they could face-off at Le Mans in a support race like the FLMs did. The point schema is gonna be confusing. |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:25 (Ref:2522450) | #38 | |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:28 (Ref:2522452) | #39 | ||
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I wouldn't say they'd no longer be ALMS rounds. GT would still score points, GTC would still score points. Heck, ACO GT1 cars would probably be welcome (if there is a GT1). IMSA would still sanction the event, but the prototype ranks would probably be jumbled a bit.
I'd like to see LMP get a name-change so that when European teams want to run in LMP1 and LMP2 configuration the IMSA/ALMS cars would be in another class, scoring points to their championship, and then a larger field overall looking for a Sebring victory - but that is just me. Similar to allowing Group C cars to enter Daytona against GTPs back in the day. LMP, LMP1, and LMP2 isn't too confusing a class structure at Sebring next year, is it? Chris |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:31 (Ref:2522453) | #40 | ||||
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16 Aug 2009, 18:38 (Ref:2522459) | #41 | ||
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Yeah, I don't like that as much.
Of course, I hate throwing out the rounds as well. I suppose that works. But the car that finishes third in LMP1 at Sebring next year and put a caning to the car that finished first or second in LMP2 in reliability and performance sure will have bones to pick with the rules then. Chris |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:38 (Ref:2522460) | #42 | |||
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Come 2011 with P1 cars running at present P2 speeds having GT3 cars in the field would be viable. |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:42 (Ref:2522461) | #43 | |
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Wow, the ALMS is really working hard to commit suicide, these new regs are the biggest piece of BS I´ve seen in a long time.
Single LMP class = Come on?! Formula LM cars = You got to be kidding me? Porsche Cup cars = Seriously? I thought the whole deal of having the Porsche cup cars run in the ALMS was very much ridiculous but this is even worse. What's next? How about Spec Racer Ford's...they´re LMP-ish..right? Or maybe somebody wants to enter his old VW Golf? Appareantly everything will do to fill the field. The ACO concept of four classes works absolutely fine as the LMS shows. The ALMS wants to fix their very own mistakes by changing the regs to their liking.I would not just be not surprised to see Acura leave after this season but applaud them...this series is really turning out to be a joke in endurance racing. And it once was a very good series. |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:42 (Ref:2522462) | #44 | |||
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Imagine the Sebring P1 podium is completely occupied by European guest starters, but there are no strong European teams in P2, then the strongest American P1 car could've beaten all the regular all season long opponents but still be at a disadvantage towards the "P2"-winner. That could, however, be solved with a no points for guests rule. |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:45 (Ref:2522463) | #45 | ||
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Here's how I think it will work rules-wise:
Enduros: LMP1, LMP2, and GT2 all run to the ACO rulebook (i.e. 1.6m wings in LMP2) Sprint races: LMP1 and GT2 run to the ACO rulebook. LMP2 runs to ACO rulebook except air restrictors increased to those used in 2008, which are ~5% larger in area, and LMP1/LMP2 run as one class. And for the points system skeptics, I'll propose a counter-scenario. Let's say Dyson wins P2 at Sebring and neither Acura finishes... then he's got a 30-pt lead in LMP going into St Pete (or whatever Rd 2 is). I think he'll enjoy that... Necessity has bred this, and I think it's the right way to go, although I might have gone with straight GT3 instead of the GT Challenge class. I'd also give the LM Challenge cars a little more HP, maybe 500 or so. |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:47 (Ref:2522464) | #46 | ||
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I understand your beefs with most. But this complaint I just don't get. I mean honestly. Who were the two biggest rivals 2006-2008? Audi vs. Penske Porsche. Why? LMP2 and LMP1 were eseentially one class. All this single class is is a name change.
I understand your fear of LMPC and GTC. I cringe at the thought of spec cars in my beloved ALMS. However, even then both of these classes seem very much to be preludes to 2011 (particularly LMPC). No, the sky is not falling. And yes, the ALMS is very well placed for the future. Chris |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:51 (Ref:2522468) | #47 | |||
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16 Aug 2009, 18:53 (Ref:2522470) | #48 | ||
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That caused their dependency for factory efforts which has put the series into its current state. The ALMS has never understood that endurance racing has to be backed by privateers, not manufacturers. That's why the LMS does so well...you have almost no manufacturer efforts there. The ALMS is set for the future? If Acura leaves, there`s nothing left... the series is grasping for the final straws, wrapping it in marketing BS. |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:54 (Ref:2522471) | #49 | |||
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LMP & LMPC These classes is being introduced ahead of the ACO’s 2011 defacto merge of the prototype classes with their new engine regs. And the introduction of a pure stock production low hp engined class as the new P-2. It looks to me as a proactive move on the part of the ALMS which will also allow the Formula Le Mans cars to come over for some of the rounds also! GT & GTC Here we have the loss of GT-1 and the bid by the big 4 (Porsche, Ferrari, GM, AM) to continue to have a class that they can develop their premier GT cars, which does not occur with the Rats vision of GT-1 as a micro class on the world stage. So that leaves us with GT-2 as the main GT class world wide. Not all teams are going to be able or want to compete with factory squads.Which leaves us with the new GTC class that has been running in the ALMS this year, which so far has worked much better than I thought it would. Also in the release is the statement that other GT-3s will be bought in to the class in the future, which will provide a good entry class for privateers in the ALMS GT class. As to more hp for LMPC and more GT-3s, I think by 2011 that may come to pass. But it all depends on how these classes perform in 2010 together as a whole I believe. L.P. |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:56 (Ref:2522472) | #50 | |||
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