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29 Jun 2010, 19:12 (Ref:2719982) | #1 | |
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Frode Holte C30
Maybe I missed something on this forum, but I came across the C30, haven't seen it earlier:
To be honest I think it doesn't look as bad as I expected, full story here: http://www.rallycross.hu/holterallycrossnorden.html |
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29 Jun 2010, 21:12 (Ref:2720056) | #2 | ||
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Yep like the look of that,just need Nottveit to think about one then we can get the big viking back in the Volvo
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6 Jul 2010, 09:07 (Ref:2722495) | #3 | |
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3rd place on its debut at Holjes. Hopefully this will encourage a few others to build a C30
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6 Jul 2010, 09:44 (Ref:2722504) | #4 | ||
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I love it
Its good to see other things than Fords and Citroens. Just wish more would use Impreza's and Evo's aswell |
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6 Jul 2010, 10:32 (Ref:2722518) | #5 | |
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Yes! It is a surprise to see those missing in the 4x4 turbocharge competition. This would attract new supporters as these are the closest you can get to an ERC/WRC and if you want to be your own Gronholm, these are the cars to have...
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6 Jul 2010, 11:20 (Ref:2722541) | #6 | ||
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6 Jul 2010, 18:33 (Ref:2722718) | #7 | |
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I do wish more rallycross teams retained the headlights at least in sticker form.
Without them cars sometimes lose their character. |
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6 Jul 2010, 19:34 (Ref:2722748) | #8 | ||
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Two points here
One is that the reason why a lot of people dont use Mitsubishi and Subaru cars is that they are not easily tunable for rallycross. Citroen and Ford tuners have been involved in rally and rallycross for many years and know exactly how to get power from those cars. There have been examples, notably Oplands Mitsy and van Mechelens Impreza, but also remmebr Eklund had to Twin Turbo his to be competitive and he soon gave that up for teh more tunable Saab. Second thig is that I adore cars with no lights!! THey lok more menacing and its one of the few things that gives rallycross some real hard look. Welchs Xtrac, Dimis original Quattro, all the Mk2 Escorts with the cut out grill, they all looked awesome! Might not look PR friendly, but I doubt that hurts rallycross too much, hence why only really manufacturer backed teams use light fill ins! |
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6 Jul 2010, 19:49 (Ref:2722757) | #9 | |
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looks fantastic then i love the road version
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6 Jul 2010, 21:16 (Ref:2722788) | #10 | ||
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Quote:
as for saabs more tunable than subarus i dont think so have we seen many ex wrc converted no ,there is one reason why them irish have them all and all they do is rally every weekend ,if only we did the same you lucky lot over there , may be as wrc is fading out we may see more converted to run in rallycross you never no |
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6 Jul 2010, 21:34 (Ref:2722793) | #11 | ||
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Subaru's work in WRC, because the power is limited there... the base is provided already, and with the homologated tuning bits, you have yourself a good car...
In rallycross, they need more power, and because most tuners have much experience and bits for inline-4s, they usually don't got the same bits for boxers, it's much better to devellop parts that can be used on 10 different engines, then parts which could only work with a Subaru engine The reason for the lack of Lancers, is that the Lancer has a tranverse engine, and in rallycross longitudonal has proven to be much more effective... And a main reason for the lack of Subaru's and Mitsubishi's in general, is the distance to Japan... When you're Ford has parts which needs replacement, you get them easily, for Japan car parts, it is possible that you have to wait months for them, go ask Huybs (the builders of the David Binks Lancer) And no, no real headlights, or headlight stickers: you recognise a real rallycross car by the fact, that it has none... and yeah, also the Escort Cosworth and WRC's looked nixe, with the black headlights, and car coloured blinkers... |
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6 Jul 2010, 21:43 (Ref:2722800) | #12 | ||
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Well to be fair Welch only really used the Opel coz he was so involved with Xtrac and they bought the transmission off them for the 4S, that car was never really used or rally and John was able to buy it cheapish I would imagine, seeing as though it was banned before it was used. But he had a lot of work to convert it to a turbo etc, but the basic formula was already there! Manta 400 block, 4wd system etc. Not really a straight up fabrication like the original Xtrac.
As for others, well I cant remember any Cosworth Beetles!! I don't think Nordstrom, Holm, Nyvall etc were using Cossie lumps! Harrold may have done praps, and most of the cars running in the top league post Group B were using SOME proven parts, be they tranmission, engine or box Oplands car was built by Gtech, who at the time specialised in unique cars as Will was such a clever bloke and had the reputation of making things work. He also built Bells Toyota, which would have been a ERC winner in the right hands I'm sure. But even that car used plenty of TTE tech. Subaru and Mitsubishi (away from the Jap tuning world which is mainly drag and time attack based) tuning is pretty hard to come by for rallycross, and to be honest if you are going to use something why not buy proven. The Cosworth motor is proven as are the Citroen and VW based ones. Why develop a car from scratch when you buy almost off the shelf proven winners? Unless you have a bottomless pit. Its what made the Group B era our golden age remember? Saab tuning may not be huge over here but in Sweden where Per is from there is Trollspeed, and they were tuning Saabs to ERC titles for many years before Per started using them!! Norstedt, Kallio etc. Hence the use of Volvo's aswell, the Volvo N/A market is amazing, 3 litre 4 pots with 330hp, amazing tech! |
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7 Jul 2010, 14:18 (Ref:2723057) | #13 | |||
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Quote:
http://sites.google.com/site/ppjracing/ I also remember Willy Vevers (I may have spelt his name worng) what what was his spec ? Then there's Nordstrom and Opland etc ... Over to your Chunder you must know |
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7 Jul 2010, 16:07 (Ref:2723100) | #14 | |
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7 Jul 2010, 16:14 (Ref:2723102) | #15 | |||
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We know that the Subaru lump (in both EJ20 and EJ25 form) can produce the required power for ERC as there a huge number of tuned Impreza's running big BHP on these shores (I appreciate that these cars are tuned for different purposes, but its proof the engines can reliably handle that sort of power). The issue with parts is a fair one, though I have heard that Mitsubishi's are particularly bad for spares. There are certainly no shortage of tuners for Subaru over here; Prodrive, Roger Clark Motorsport... all with the expertise (in my opinion anyway) to make a rallycross Impreza work - sadly all very expensive companies to deal with though! Citroen have always annoyed me in that they don't reflect their motorsport success in their roadcars - there is no "RS" or "STi" in the showrooms. You can't argue with the fact they continually pour money into - and succeed - at building successful rally and rallycross cars (as well as providing global sponsorship for rally series). Subaru are a company that has gained massive commercial success through motorsport, yet Subaru Europe don't seem willing to fund any major motosport programmes over here - very frustrating! I'm looking to see what sort of car Subaru America can turn out for this years X-Games rallycross (and the subsequent US rallycross rounds later in the year). If Subaru America can put something decent together then put it in the hands of Isachsen, I'll be very interested to see how it shapes up against the Olsberg prepared Fords - and whether it persuades Subaru Worldwide to get their finger out and start participating in the ERC! |
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7 Jul 2010, 16:52 (Ref:2723121) | #16 | ||
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No instead they bring out an 308 with an 1.6 engine and dear to call it GTI! Well that's what we call a warm hatch... Like Golf GT... |
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7 Jul 2010, 21:19 (Ref:2723245) | #17 | |
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As for not using evo's because the engine is the wrong way is crap every rallycross out there was transverse and saying engine parts are the same for 4 cyl engines is crap as well ,it is very easy to get 5oo bhp from any 4 cyl engine most parts are usa born eg steel rods cranks etc ,and all is used from std engine is block ,bare head the rest is aftermarket at that hp ,same with boxer engine there are loads of tuners out there that can get 500hp out of them ,as for parts from japan what do they need shells ,the pannels are made here if needed gearbox plenty to choose from in europe ,suspension same as said its down to money ,
and do we remember a peugeot 306 which was made a few years back bit odd i am sure it was the only one well that was any good and its still going today at the top end ,as said anything will work with the right people and aftermarket parts , ford focus uses nothing from its road car not even engine got the old yb in them .citroen same again uses the old ew 7/10 engine thats not what c 4 uses , |
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7 Jul 2010, 21:44 (Ref:2723270) | #18 | ||
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Quote:
And indeed the Cosworth engine is the ultimate prove that age doesn't matter. Ok, the engines are much different than the original were in the 80's and 90's and also features some new technologies, some as simple as the 4 direct firing bobines replacing the very dated old system with rotor and leads and is also better than the WRC spec system with 2 bobines... About the Evo engines, I have no doubt if Americans can build 1000 bhp drag engines, a reliable 550 bhp cannot be build. There are so much parts to chose from, either from Japanese and American tuners (like manifolds, turbo's, pistons, crankshafts) as parts from WRC's and A8 Rallycars (like ALS and gearboxes). The engine position of a WRC with transverse engine could be an advantage if it can cope with the torque. But the Evo or Impreza has yet to prove itself, maybe someday someone does? Norris maybe? |
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7 Jul 2010, 22:47 (Ref:2723290) | #19 | ||
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The gearbox issue of using transverse engines was all sorted many years ago when Schanche developed his concentric gearbox that converted a transverse power into a long boxthat could be better used. He developed this on the second green Escort and it was adapted to be used on many cars of the time.
I am not sure if Martin sold this idea to Ford but Msport used the same thing on its Focis WRC when released in 99, and it was also used in the hyundai, SEAT and I think206 WRC cars, though perhaps not in teh same form. Converting the pwoer is the issue and unless you buy one of these obscenely expensive boxes you cant really compete unless you develop your own! And why would you when the bits are there already from Quaife or Xtrac for a YB Focus or VW based engine. Will was a top man for all this, he used the Zetec and it didnt tkae off sadly |
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8 Jul 2010, 08:05 (Ref:2723387) | #20 | ||||
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Quote:
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The best chance for the Evo at the moment is Steve Hill Motorsport in the UK. Steve Hill obviously has experience with Evo's, and the potential in the car is there, but he seems to be forever plagued by reliability problems. Of course he is a privateer trying to develop a brand new chassis though, so development "speed bumps" are inevitable. He seemed to have the same problem with his previous Evo though - great performance up to the point where something went bang. I'm biased as my preference is with Subaru but, looking at it realistically, I think a properly funded Subaru has more potential to succeed in rallycross as you have a much greater selection of WRC parts to utilise. If you look at companies like Roger Clark Motorsport, they have built numerous EJ20 engines running 600+ BHP (rallycross territory) which have gone on to be regularly (and reliably) raced. |
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8 Jul 2010, 11:50 (Ref:2723464) | #21 | |||
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8 Jul 2010, 13:42 (Ref:2723512) | #22 | |||
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At the front or at the back I still enjoy seeing your (and all the cars) giving it 100% out on track. I wish that some of the privateers were able to give "factory" cars more of a run for their money but, when you are paying for the development yourselves, I guess thats something you have to work towards. |
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8 Jul 2010, 14:10 (Ref:2723520) | #23 | |||
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8 Jul 2010, 21:04 (Ref:2723719) | #24 | ||
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Quote:
Last edited by BertMk2; 9 Jul 2010 at 08:20. Reason: formatting |
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8 Jul 2010, 21:08 (Ref:2723723) | #25 | ||
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I have to say Freddi's volvo does look nice would love to see ludvig in one again.
BB.... |
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If in doubt " Flat Out ". |
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