Why GREED will kill off V8SC

[Marcos WTF]

Originally Posted by numbnuts

hi everyone , i was a regular attendee at v8 events until around 2010 . the stupid prices and aggressive security put us off .
at barbagallo they install corporate tents across most of the public viewing areas spoiling the show for us uncorporates .
lately we attend local low key motorsport and get some variety as well as value for money.
i find it very greedy when V8SC only award a grand to the pole sitter (on a ten foot cheque ! ) when they collect maybe ten times that amount in fines .

Exactly. Before we were ****ed over by V8$upercars, I'd watch the V8s
if they clashed with a Morgan Pk/Lakeside/QR club meeting.
No longer. If there's a clash, hello club racing, goodbye V8s. I'll still go to Bathurst, thats as much about the catch up as it is about the race.

[JAFA851]

Originally Posted by billybanana

You want a better product you have to pay for it.

How is it "better" this year on Fox than it was last year on FTA? It's still the same cars with the same drivers, and the same support categories, racing on the same tracks. I don't care for all the background "news" and behind the scenes crap, I can get that on this forum and other places. I don't have Fox at home, and I really have no intention of getting it just to watch V8s once every 4-6 weeks. If they ran a decent number of events like Nascar, every other weekend or something, I'd probably get Fox, but not in it's current format.

[billybanana]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

How is it "better" this year on Fox than it was last year on FTA?

Seriously ? All sessions live, all supports live, full HD broadcast, all racing ad free, no Larko and panel/info shows during the week. The coverage is infinitely better than any previous FTA effort.

[JAFA851]

Originally Posted by billybanana

Seriously ? All sessions live, all supports live, full HD broadcast, all racing ad free, no Larko and panel/info shows during the week. The coverage is infinitely better than any previous FTA effort.

Like I said, I don't have Fox at home so I didn't know all that. Still doesn't change my mind though.

[Stram_man]

While I am passionate about motorsport I do no longer attend the V8SC races and out of principle have not signed up for foxtel yet.
I have however taken a greater interest in historic racing and racing at the state level.
That is racing "like the good old days" without the commercial crap that has been put into the sport to move towards being "entertainment"
You can get up close to the cars, feel the heat from a just raced car, smell of exhaust and speak to the crew.
It also does not require a money based class system whereby those with the deepest wallet gain a bit more access and the great unwashed watch on from a distance.

Terry

[bortall]

Originally Posted by Stram_man

While I am passionate about motorsport I do no longer attend the V8SC races and out of principle have not signed up for foxtel yet.
I have however taken a greater interest in historic racing and racing at the state level.
That is racing "like the good old days" without the commercial crap that has been put into the sport to move towards being "entertainment"
You can get up close to the cars, feel the heat from a just raced car, smell of exhaust and speak to the crew.
It also does not require a money based class system whereby those with the deepest wallet gain a bit more access and the great unwashed watch on from a distance.

Terry

Someone after my own heart

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

How is it "better" this year on Fox than it was last year on FTA? It's still the same cars with the same drivers, and the same support categories, racing on the same tracks. I don't care for all the background "news" and behind the scenes crap, I can get that on this forum and other places. I don't have Fox at home, and I really have no intention of getting it just to watch V8s once every 4-6 weeks. If they ran a decent number of events like Nascar, every other weekend or something, I'd probably get Fox, but not in it's current format.

They do have all 3 NASCAR classes each weekend!Only ever watch WatkinsGlen myself but it gives you the green light to stop complaining!

[Airhead]

Originally Posted by bortall

Someone after my own heart

And mine as well.

[PVDA]

I've actually watched more V8 & F1 this year than previous years and am enjoying watching the local supports for the V8 rounds and all the pre and post F1 race stuff from Sky Sport.

Not to mention GP2 & GP3, WEC, NASCAR, WSBK & MotoGP, Speedway GP and all the other wheeled sport on Foxtel.

[HDTVKSS]

ill give my 0.2c on this one (been a long time between posts...)

A bit of background. a long time motorsport fan - not just V8's . as a ikid i used to watch tapes of Bathurst instead of cartoons on a saturday / Sunday morning and it grew from there. I stopped watching around the supertouring era ( I was more interested in girls) but got back into it around the time that Brock retired.

We used to go to a couple of rounds a year, but have not done this for a long time. Why? im from Sydney and the viewing at EC is bad if not terrible, awful parking, and overpriced everything. Id much rather watch on TV - you see more of the track and have a better grasp of what is going on. Motorsports for me never had that atmosphere sensation that something like the football can have when trackside (and im not a big football fan, but having attended a few games its very noticable). I went to the 12HR this year, and besides the stifling temps really enjoyed it as it didnt seem you were getting price gouged at every turn, the racing was good and accessible and the atmosphere was great. Im really hoping V8SC dont screw that up as well.

I watched main game racing for the last few years. This year, after it went to Fox, i pretty much have stopped. I have Fox - i got it for the F1 more than anything however I have it on an internet based subscription and live in an area where you can only get ADSL1 - hence no unlimited subscriptions. yes I can afford Fox (quite comfortably) but in the last few weeks I question its value and unless the world of motorsport turns upside down ill be cancelling at the end of the F1 season.

I couldn't care less for 99% of the other Fox programming, including the V8 add ons. I have a young family and a hectic job, so I really don't have time nor inclination to sit down and see what Skaife and a couple of drivers has to say during the week - especially for information that you can easily gain through a myriad of websites at my own leisure.

Im not a fan of the "Super Sprint" format (and stealing that name from club racing was poor form for what is not even a super sprint). Basically it comes down to can I be bothered wasting bandwidth on V8SC and increasingly I find the answer to be "no".

On the weekend I signed up for WEC on my Ipad, it cost me what, 20 bucks for a season, on demand when I want to consume it (Fox wasn't showing it live as far as i could see - Golf was more important). Blancpain GT series is free, MotoGP has a season pass for on demand access + is on FTA. So tell me what my $600 a year is getting me on Fox? for that money I want all my racing on demand, when I want to see it at my leisure - Netflix style. If i miss a race on Fox that is not V8SC i need to wait what seems to be a couple of days to access it on Go / Play and then i have to dig for it. its pretty crap when you consider the alternative.

F1 is hardly better - its a Mercedes / Hamilton - athon with sweet FA chance of it getting better as its a regulated advantage. Now, I love F1 - but again the cost does not justify the product. Hell, i even watched the Singapore race on FTA to get me ready for my impending Foxtel divorce.

I know someone will answer that I can also get endless reruns of Seinfeld and stargate atlantis, as well as LGPA, tenpin bowling, freediving, mud wrestling and a gizillion other pointless shows but the issues are that i neither have time, not the inclination to watch them.

In Summary, if they want me to pay what they want to charge for viewing the product either on TV or live, it needs to be worth it dollar wise. Currently, in my opinion, it falls well short.

[mayhem]

Well said HDTVKSS, I'm in a very similar situation: I can afford Fox but everytime I've had it over the years (numerous times) I've always questioned the value so I dont have it these days. If anything, this whole Foxtel deal has proved to me that I don't NEED V8s, I get my sporting fixes elsewhere, and my motorsport fixes from other categories from around the world.

Years ago I went to around 9 x V8 Supercar meetings per year, and had more merchandise than I could poke a stick at: these days I wouldnt even know the price a shirt or a jacket goes for. I find the entry prices to be exorbitant beyond belief. I used to buy every Motorsport News and Auto Action, again I cant remember the last time I got AA.

So much so that my young son who was V8 Supercar mad is now Blancpain Series crazy (both series) and rarely asks about the Supercars. The last three times Ive been to a V8 meeting it's been on a Friday only, just for my photo-fix.

I hang for the 12 Hour at Bathurst each year and will watch with interest the changes (or not) that the V8 Supercars bring to the race, but that race weekend brings me the joy that V8s used to bring.

But like I said, the Fox deal has pretty much killed my intense interest for the series, I watch from afar these days, and not every round.

[billybanana]

I'm curious as to how the series (read business) was going to survive without an injection of funds from the pay tv deal ? Where exactly was that level of income going to come from instead ? I didn't see any FTA network willing to contribute that sort of coin and there is no other source of income for the sport that generates the numbers we're talking about.

Maybe the deal will turn out to be a short term fix and only delay the inevitable. Maybe it will turn out to be a genius move that kept the series afloat. Who knows but the reality is the landscape will have changed dramatically in another 5 and a bit yrs when this deal expires. Local manufacturing will be long gone, much of the anti-siphoning list rules will be too.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by billybanana

I'm curious as to how the series (read business) was going to survive without an injection of funds from the pay tv deal ?

Series has survived since 1960, no reason that 2014/15 was the end of the line without taking Foxtel $$

[mayhem]

Originally Posted by billybanana

I'm curious as to how the series (read business) was going to survive without an injection of funds from the pay tv deal ? Where exactly was that level of income going to come from instead ? I didn't see any FTA network willing to contribute that sort of coin and there is no other source of income for the sport that generates the numbers we're talking about.

Maybe the deal will turn out to be a short term fix and only delay the inevitable. Maybe it will turn out to be a genius move that kept the series afloat. Who knows but the reality is the landscape will have changed dramatically in another 5 and a bit yrs when this deal expires. Local manufacturing will be long gone, much of the anti-siphoning list rules will be too.

IMO billy, I think you nailed it in your second paragraph. I think it's delaying the inevitable right now

Can I ask you, would the AFL or NRL take money for less people to see their product? Because that's essentially what they've done; yep they received some cash that's kept people afloat, but at what cost?

In an increasingly tightening sponsorship market (as we are constantly reminded), if you're a company with a million dollars to spend, do you sponsor a V8 Supercar with much less than 100k watching live in many cases, or an NRL/AFL team with a bunch more TV/press coverage?

If the cash cow that is Fox is so good, have V8 Supercar teams started charging less for sponsorship opportunities considering less people are watching? Because companies (and their marketing arms) are noticing, no matter how they are spinning their TV numbers.

[HDTVKSS]

Originally Posted by billybanana

I'm curious as to how the series (read business) was going to survive without an injection of funds from the pay tv deal ? .

Instead of increased income, how about reduced costs? you don't need to spend a gazillion dollars like these guys are to have a decent series.

[PVDA]

I have to agree with peckstar (did I actually just write that) about BBQ's.

Having seen a BBQ at a Calder drag meet leak at the bottle connection and catch fire resulting in the evacuation of a fair section of the spectator area so safety checks I have no issue with.

Confusing signs where they say yes, then no could be a simple sign writer stuff up that no one has picked up on.

The BBQ checks have been going on for at least 4 years now.

As for the access past the Causeway, you have to remember despite Sandown being the Home of Horse Power the motorised version of horse power will always play 2nd fiddle to the hay eating, manure making variety which doesn't use that section of the complex except for parking at the occasional big horse event.

At least you can walk from the top of the hill to Dandy Rd these days, several years ago that was blocked off.

[billybanana]

Originally Posted by one five five

Series has survived since 1960, no reason that 2014/15 was the end of the line without taking Foxtel $$

For the most part the series survived across those eras on attendances alone. That's not enough nowadays. Not financially and not from a sponsors viewpoint.

Originally Posted by mayhem

Can I ask you, would the AFL or NRL take money for less people to see their product?

Of course not but I don't see those two sports as a fair comparison. V8SC is nowhere near that league despite what they might tell us. The Fox deal was the best deal on the table at the time. I'm sure if Seven offered $40M a yr we'd still have full FTA coverage.

Originally Posted by HDTVKSS

Instead of increased income, how about reduced costs? you don't need to spend a gazillion dollars like these guys are to have a decent series.

If you want a professional level of participation and teams like 888, PRA, Walkinshaw, TP to move the series forward you do have to spend plenty of coin.......they will always try to outspend each other to gain the slightest advantage.

Having said all that I do have major concerns over the direction the sport is heading in the long term, irrespective of what occurs in tv land.

[D.R.T.]

The main difference between the 60s and now is that we have a venture capitalist taking 70% of the profits. That's what drove the Pay TV deal - so let's be realistic

[GreenMachine]

Just like the F1 ...

[mspence]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

The main difference between the 60s and now is that we have a venture capitalist taking 70% of the profits. That's what drove the Pay TV deal - so let's be realistic

And also 70% of the losses / risk.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

Just like the F1 ...

Not sure what this has to do with v8sc.

The TV deal didn't ensure the survival of the category as some are suggesting - it ensured Archer got a short term profit margin.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Not sure what this has to do with v8sc.

The TV deal didn't ensure the survival of the category as some are suggesting - it ensured Archer got a short term profit margin.

So 3 teams handing back there licences at the end of 2013 because they couldnt get a pay out was survival was it?

When Archer get a pay out so do the teams

[D.R.T.]

And no teams handed back licenses during the previous channel 10 or 7 deals?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

And no teams handed back licenses during the previous channel 10 or 7 deals?

they were purchased back werent they? As in v8 supercars bought them and paid money