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3 May 2016, 11:36 (Ref:3638086) | #51 | ||
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If that is the case and it is a very big If, he has no place on the race track. I personally think he over reached himself, trying to be too clever and unfortunately ruined Vettel's race and messed up his team mate's.
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3 May 2016, 12:59 (Ref:3638110) | #52 | ||
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Following Canada at the French GP: "Hamilton and Rosberg were both given ten place grid penalties for the French Grand Prix, meaning that whatever their qualifying position, they could start no better than 11th." Japan 2007 "Following the race, Sebastian Vettel faced a 10-place penalty for the next race in Shanghai, China, for causing the collision with Mark Webber which put both drivers out of the race, but this punishment was reduced to a reprimand. When new evidence was presented to the FIA, it began an investigation of Lewis Hamilton for dangerous driving and causing the collision himself. Hamilton was leading the race right in front of Webber, before suddenly braking and forcing Webber to follow suit lest he be penalised for overtaking behind the safety car; the collision occurred when Vettel's car ran into the back of Webber. Hamilton might have faced either disqualification or a grid penalty for the next race,[5] but the FIA decided not to impose any penalty.[6]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Canadian_Grand_Prix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Japanese_Grand_Prix Last edited by wnut; 3 May 2016 at 13:07. |
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3 May 2016, 15:51 (Ref:3638161) | #53 | |
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I agree some of the comments about Kyvat are OTT. We are now hearing people saying his move in China was out of order. Leave it out, why didn't they say it at the time. Indeed I seem to remember a certain young German getting involved in a few unneesscary incidents most notably with his own teammate
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3 May 2016, 16:03 (Ref:3638165) | #54 | ||
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1st corner bunching. Accidents happen at a hell of a lot of races at the first corner. DK's fault. No need to sack anyone.
The second accident was because Vettel slowed suddenly whilst on the racing line in a corner that everyone else was going flat out. DK would have to had some kind of Russel Grant premonition to know that was going to happen, or he would have had to slam his anchors on in about a quarter of a second. It was right that DK was penalized, but it was not exactly a Pastor Maldonado or Roman Grosjean (from 3 years ago) type of knucklehead move. |
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3 May 2016, 17:41 (Ref:3638193) | #55 | ||
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T4YSilwLYw ... and pay attention of the position and speed differentials right before the collision of Kvyat in relation to ALL of the cars around him. Also note the relationship between Vettel and the (?) Williams to Vettel's left and whoever is in front of Vettel. They roughly match speed and they all slow except Kvyat. So you would ask why did they slow? Well if you look at the track map, there is a bit of a short straight between turn 3 and 4. Turn 4 is a decreasing radius left hand sweeper. So everyone was in a drag race on that short straight after the turn 2/3 mess, but as they enter the start of turn 4 they come off the throttle a bit to maintain speed plus try to tuck in to the left vs trying to run on the outside of a long decreasing radius left hander. Kvyat just didn't lift like everyone else did. Which is also the same issue with turn one! Same mistake twice in quick succession. In my book, it was totally Kvyat's fault all around. Richard (Edit: Also... whoever was in front of Vettel and the Williams appeared to be a bit squirrely and they may have slowed a bit more or earlier plus the fact there was not much room on the left (for the Williams) or the right (for the Ferrari).) |
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3 May 2016, 17:51 (Ref:3638197) | #56 | ||||||||
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Last edited by Adam43; 3 May 2016 at 17:58. |
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3 May 2016, 19:17 (Ref:3638220) | #57 | ||
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3 May 2016, 19:57 (Ref:3638230) | #58 | ||
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Intent is incredibly important. Not least in being fair to him. If he purposely took some one out then it should be a long ban.
If he made a significant mistake (braked too late and misjudged his closing speed in the first lap melee) I'm fine with a penalty. However if he is consistently doing this then a time out, like with Grosjean a few years back, might be appropriate. I'm not recalling anything else significant recently, although I may have forgotten. |
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3 May 2016, 20:33 (Ref:3638243) | #59 | ||
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If you are going to heavily punish someone for a first lap incident, you are going to set a very dangerous precedent. It was an accident that also ruined Kvyat's own race as well remember. Vettels done worse in the past.
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3 May 2016, 23:57 (Ref:3638284) | #60 | ||
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Funny how Kvyat gets a ten second stop and go while Gutierrez only got a drive through. Gutierrez took out Hulkenberg instantly and caused huge carnage at the back while Kvyat took out Vettel only. Yet it's Kvyat that received the most severe penalty. What, because Vettel is louder? Or because the race of a former champion is worth several backmarkers ?
I'm not saying that Kvyat doesn't deserve that. Just a bit more consistency in the enforcement process. No preferable treatment to WDCs. That's it. Sent from my SM-G9250 using Tapatalk |
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4 May 2016, 01:39 (Ref:3638307) | #61 | |||
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Last edited by dsg; 4 May 2016 at 01:44. Reason: clarification |
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4 May 2016, 09:54 (Ref:3638406) | #62 | |
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Kvyat caused two collisions within 5 seconds ... unbelievable levels of incompetency
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5 May 2016, 01:08 (Ref:3638629) | #63 | ||
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5 May 2016, 01:49 (Ref:3638642) | #64 | ||
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The accident RoGro was suspended for was not nearly clearly his fault. Kvyat however drove into the back of Vettel, then repeated virtually exactly the same accident at the next corner that wrecked Vettel's car. Does he not learn anything? For this he receives one discounted 10 second stop go. Sorry, insufficient. |
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5 May 2016, 02:33 (Ref:3638650) | #65 | |||
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I agree the first crash was his fault and a drive through was warranted but much like the Japan incident there are mitigating circumstances for the 2nd hit. I thought a 10 second stop go was somewhat harsh but calls for a grid penalty or race ban is too much. |
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5 May 2016, 02:49 (Ref:3638654) | #66 | |
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I'll leave you with this:
Red Bull could swap Verstappen and Kvyat as early as Spanish GP. “Braking too late once and hitting another car would be acceptable in front of his home crowd, but this doesn't apply for the second crash,” said Marko. [I]“It's a pity because he did not only ruin Vettel's race and [Daniel] Ricciardo's race, but also his own race. He had to do an extra stop. It was a day of disaster for Red Bull. http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/re...ish-gp-733475/ Apparently Dr Helmut isn't buying the no fault line anyway. |
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5 May 2016, 03:49 (Ref:3638667) | #67 | ||
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No one is buying the no fault line.
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5 May 2016, 11:18 (Ref:3638753) | #68 | |||
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I mean I sort of feel sorry for Kyvat, he can be fast. But at the same time he hadn't really earned the call up to F1. He had a completely average season of GP3, but it just so happened that everyone else in GP3 that year also had average seasons so he won the title by default. And only after Facu Regalia butchered the last two races. When Regalia, Tio Ellinas, Conor Daly are the leading drivers, you know it wasn't a strong lineup that year for GP3. Mitch Evans, Alex Lynn and Esteban Ocon certainly haven't been called up to F1 and they've had much competition in the years they won. Ocon might be yet though. Yet suddenly Kyvats thrust into F1 without a single GP2 race under his belt, while since then Vandoorne, Frijns and Magnussen sit at home. Apart from a few odd races, Kyvat can't match Ricciardo. He showed good form in equalling Vergne, but to be honest since he left F1 and showed up at Formula E, Vergne's been not as good as I was expecting. Perhaps he never was good enough for F1. Still, only RB would dump a driver like this after two crashes. But I think Verstappen will be better at RB, I'm excited to see Ricciardo vs Verstappen. Sainz vs Kyvat will also be interesting, since up until GP3 Sainz pretty much had the measure of Kyvat throughout their rise through the formulas. It was just a few lucky races, and Kyvat got the F1 call, Sainz had to wait and prove himself in WSR. Prediction: Sainz Jr will prove faster than Kyvat, who by 2018 will join Vergne, Buemi, Alguesuari... |
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5 May 2016, 12:10 (Ref:3638770) | #69 | |||
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IMO, quite similarly to Kvyat, Verstappen can be fast and spectacular. But he also loses it sometimes (Monaco 2015, Sepang 2016). He lacks race experience, not speed. I'm convinced he can do probably a better job than Kvyat, but he'll need to be careful and patient, for he is capable to do a Kvyat-style Sochi manouvre (the first hit) too. And patience doesn't really seem to be one his virtues, nor one of Red Bulls. |
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5 May 2016, 13:34 (Ref:3638786) | #70 | ||
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5 May 2016, 14:52 (Ref:3638804) | #71 | ||
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I have nothing against Kyvat. As others have said here and in another thread, both he and Verstappen are young and lacking in overall experience. If you are in a top team and unproven, then the spotlight is on you more than maybe others. It might be unfair, but its sink or swim. How Kyvat handles the demotion to STR will define his future F1 career. Richard |
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5 May 2016, 17:02 (Ref:3638865) | #72 | |||
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http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124125 |
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5 May 2016, 21:34 (Ref:3638971) | #73 | ||
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5 May 2016, 23:09 (Ref:3638991) | #74 | ||
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6 May 2016, 01:10 (Ref:3639010) | #75 | ||
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I don't think the swap would've happened if Verstappen wasn't a special talent. It'll be fascinating to see how both drivers fare but Kyvat's confidence cannot but take a whacking.
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