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21 Feb 2018, 00:06 (Ref:3802800) | #6176 | |
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I wonder what Toyota has been testing knowing in advance that they already won Le Mans and WEC LMP1 Super season...
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21 Feb 2018, 02:09 (Ref:3802807) | #6177 | |
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21 Feb 2018, 04:13 (Ref:3802816) | #6178 | |
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They haven't won anything yet. I do think they'll improve on pace year over year like usual, but I don't think it'll be a cake walk like most seem to feel. I see the speeds and lap times these private cars are setting in testing and it looks really good for a challenge!
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21 Feb 2018, 04:51 (Ref:3802819) | #6179 | ||
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Exactly. How close to a comfortable win did they get only for the car to fail (ie for the event to beat Toyota) in the final 3 minutes of 24 hours. Although Porsche won that year, they did not really 'beat' Toyota in as much as the event beat Toyota
I dont think their statement is dismissing the opposition other than it being a modern day take on "To finish first, first you have to finish" type of statement. |
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23 Feb 2018, 21:15 (Ref:3803485) | #6180 | |
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Toyota want varying performance (like hybrid power) levels to be equalized in future lmp1. Not sure if that's breaking news but it sounds like they're open to reducing the reliance on hybrid power and increasing engine power, which sounds good to me!
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24 Feb 2018, 08:28 (Ref:3803552) | #6181 | ||
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24 Feb 2018, 15:51 (Ref:3803631) | #6182 | ||
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I hope that's meant as direct insult towards the DPi nonsense. |
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25 Feb 2018, 03:01 (Ref:3803727) | #6183 | ||
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25 Feb 2018, 09:36 (Ref:3803759) | #6184 | |
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25 Feb 2018, 14:30 (Ref:3803815) | #6185 | ||
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They expect to stay for the 19-20 season, against the assumed privateers again
https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/1...out-wec-hiatus Quote:
I don't care if you have the motor coming off from Chevrolet or whoever if your chassis is basically nothing but a rebranded spec Dallara with some slapped-off cheap body panels that do nothing. I find it insulting to a viewer to refer it to as "Cadillac" or "Mazda" or "Nissan" or "Acura" or whatever, not even mentioning the REAL THING underneath, in essence they are cheap manufactured stock cars. The worst case is the Nissan which has nothing Nissan about it, even the bodywork is only there because the organizer specifically forced Onroak to add more of it to not have identical spec Onroak to spec Onroak. That may be the Daytona way, but it never should be the Le Mans way. At least I trust that the ACO GTP would make honest cars racing with technology factory. Which is why I pray they are listening more to Toyota than these other cheap pocket Zak Brown etc lobbyists Last edited by Deleted; 25 Feb 2018 at 14:39. |
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25 Feb 2018, 15:28 (Ref:3803820) | #6186 | ||
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However I'm conflicted, because our interest (yours and mine) killed the class. The class became cost prohibitive as soon as manufacturers are involved in this open development spending war. Despite reducing to engine quantity limits, 2 aero bodywork shapes, and so on. You fundamentally either have "stock or homologated spec cars" and BOP. or Open development and cost spiraling out of control (aka F1, except F1 is the only form of racing that has the repute to sustain itself even in a noncompetitive and costly championship). Realistically, how does an open development hybrid GTP formula not end the way it did in 1999? What am I missing? No manufacturer bean counters want to pay for sportscar racing in the way that we want to see it. Which is wildly open development and no BOP. What answer is there left other than some type of class with BOP and no development? |
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25 Feb 2018, 18:01 (Ref:3803837) | #6187 | ||
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The answer is to press on on the road you have chosen and not give up on cheap, easy, manipulated answers like DPi (or akin to that). They have already taken the lazy route with LMGTE and to some extent LMP2, no need to do that with top class as well when we KNOW that the history repeats itself at LM with the periodical fluctuations. Of course -some- regulatory steps need to be taken so not to fall of the road in terms of relevancy, but evolutions, not revolutions in ideology. Giving up is what the rest of the world does, but you shouldn't fall into that trap. F1 is the king for a reason (regardless of what me may think of it), it treats itself like king. P1 should as well. Not as some duke or something... Last edited by Deleted; 25 Feb 2018 at 18:06. |
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25 Feb 2018, 19:36 (Ref:3803856) | #6188 | ||
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And then on a whole. We aren't in the 2000s anymore. WEC can't afford to have a "lull" and a "stew" waiting a few years for the next group of manufacturers to show up. Why do you think TV coverage is so bad as is? Or even the salvage that is next years Super Season...Porsche and Audi may have pulled out because of Dieselgate, but no other manufacturers bare Toyota have been chomping at the bit to be here....We've had it one way for so long, and now it needs to be different for the sake of being different. I don't know what the solution is. But it is certainly not just keeping the current ruleset.... Last edited by Articus; 25 Feb 2018 at 19:48. |
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25 Feb 2018, 20:31 (Ref:3803873) | #6189 | |
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I think no other manufacturers showed up because of Porsche and Audi (spending). Even before Toyota joined it was only Peugeot vs Audi and they had to use a diesel to be competitive/win. It seems there's only a few manufacturers who want to do all the work but plenty (I should say more) who want the Nascar/Dpi route because there's not much work to do. The ACO purposely made lmp2 with a single engine and 4 chassis to move guys like this up to lmp1. But of course instead of agreeing with this, Nascar feels it's better to use lmp2 for dpi. I really can't understand it.
In the new rules, I really hope they go more in depth with a GTP style car. Low, wide, cool-looking cars that are like prototypes but GT's. Like a step beyond Super GT. I fear that these 'cheap' guys over in IMSA won't want to do any more work than they have done now and there will be another stalemate between real lmp1's gtp's and rebadge jobs running here in the states. Toyota seems to be in the first camp and hopefully more follow. It doesn't have to be expensive, super-hybrid cars either. That's what the article above covers. Here's hoping. In the meantime at least we have Toyota and 8 other lmp1's that should put on a good show. |
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25 Feb 2018, 20:49 (Ref:3803878) | #6190 | |||
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As for ACO being able to afford anything, or 'what needs to be done', well we can make arguments whether it really makes sense for there to be FIA world championship in the first place in this environment when quite probably a smaller scale intercontinental series would serve the same job of building a momentum around Le Mans, but it is what it is. Quote:
And they didn't use diesel to be able to win, Audi brought it up in 2006 for marketing reasons and Pug followed the norm. Sure they were light years ahead of the petrol cars but it's not like the privateer gap to factories magically changed when the petrol factory cars arrived. ACO just doesn't boost the privateers up unless there's a so-called force majeure like this year, and the last time circa 04-06 Agree with the rest Last edited by Deleted; 25 Feb 2018 at 20:55. |
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25 Feb 2018, 20:54 (Ref:3803882) | #6191 | |
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All good points. Apologies, I just noticed it was the Toyota LMP thread.
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25 Feb 2018, 21:41 (Ref:3803894) | #6192 | ||
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25 Feb 2018, 22:15 (Ref:3803899) | #6193 | ||
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I don't think it was as much about being against running hybrids as per say, but that they played such a big factor in the category and there was less empathizing on other things someone might have wanted. However, as I hinted earlier, at least the ACO stood by the rules and didn't give up on the lobby demands some parties might've had behind the curtains, which is good. |
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26 Feb 2018, 02:18 (Ref:3803927) | #6194 | |
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Edit: I am lost
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26 Feb 2018, 19:08 (Ref:3804120) | #6195 | |||
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Time to move this to a more relevant thread please. Obviously all things are related, but it would help other aspects to the Toyota thread if this was moved to one of the other more general rule and future threads, thank you. |
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Brum brum |
27 Feb 2018, 11:55 (Ref:3804250) | #6196 | |
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https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...lonso-1009457/
Good to hear from him, sounds like he isn't sitting about feeling sorry for himself either |
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27 Feb 2018, 14:08 (Ref:3804279) | #6197 | ||
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27 Feb 2018, 14:45 (Ref:3804292) | #6198 | |
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Good to see others willing/able to fill the roles of those who are blocked to participate at Petit because of the Fuji clash. Davidson would be an excellent addition to the IMSA grid. I believe he won the petit Petit with Peugeot back in '09 (and maybe 2010 as well)?
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27 Feb 2018, 15:17 (Ref:3804300) | #6199 | |
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Davidson is not one to complain, he knows how lucky he is to still be with Toyota and also knows why it was hard to turn down Fred. I certainly hope we haven't seen the last of him
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28 Feb 2018, 18:36 (Ref:3804651) | #6200 | |
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Davidson is very lucky for having such a well-paid job.
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