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14 May 2018, 17:47 (Ref:3822392) | #5601 | |
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You see, only he sees 12 million is any good. I doubt Honda will leave though
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
15 May 2018, 03:36 (Ref:3822500) | #5602 | ||
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Quote:
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15 May 2018, 09:38 (Ref:3822555) | #5603 | |||
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Quote:
F1 races generally last around 90 minutes, while the WEC races run 6 hours plus the 24 Hours of Le Mans. Assuming 5 non Le Mans races, that's a total of 54 hours of racing in WEC(30 of them the non-Le Mans rounds) vs a total of 33 hours for 22 F1 races. Even if all the F1 races lasted to their two-hour time limit, they'd still run 10 hours less than WEC. |
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15 May 2018, 11:37 (Ref:3822584) | #5604 | ||
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So that's 71 hours of track time, approximately. The same maths, plus a little more for Le Mans weekend, takes it to around 67.5. Basically, 5 WEC races plus Le Mans is around the equivalent of 22 F1 races. But that doesn't start to talk about times between rebuilds, limit of components etc. Either way, you're not going to bring an engine cost down from $14m to $1m. Toto already thinks they're cheap enough. From his point of view he's correct, because he's the one selling them, so he'd love to make some more money. Nothing from F1 will transfer over - their idea of cheap is ridiculous compared to the rest of motorsport. |
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15 May 2018, 12:34 (Ref:3822590) | #5605 | |
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Yes F1 has enough running on a weekend and it depends how long they run in practice. Really there are maybe about 2 too many races on the F1 calendar, may need to bring it down again. Really Le Mans can go it's own way, it's not comparable to F1
WEC has done the right thing to cap the number of races per season. But it is still expensive. If they want to use power units they need to do so with caution. Toto knows that he will get plenty from selling his engines, that's what he does. It's probably a bad idea for another series to try and copy F1's ideas |
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
15 May 2018, 16:24 (Ref:3822627) | #5606 | |
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I agree the price is too high right now. But we'll see. If someone like Aston Martin wants to do both, they may just use the same engine. F1 uses a lot more engines per year than the WEC ever will. It's not just because of the shorter running but because they fail and that's inevitable. So you have to factor in the price of the 21, 22 weekends, spares, support, upgrades etc. The WEC has 6 or 7 weekends and the test day + Le Mans week which is a lot lower even if it has longer run-time. If I were an F1 engine manufacturer that wanted in the Le Mans scene, I would offer a slightly revised engine based on the future F1 unit and lease/sell it at a lesser price. They won't have to worry about the latest upgrades or brand new engines every year if the Super Season format stays in place. And from what the talk is, part of the reduced price comes in the form of not having to worry about the extreme upgrade nature that F1 has. So you could make your engine purchase/lease and not have to worry about it being out of date a few months or even a year or two from now.
Haven't seen this posted, but more from Todt on manufacturers in 'GTP' https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...20-21-1037904/ |
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15 May 2018, 19:02 (Ref:3822666) | #5607 | |
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It’s certainly too high for WEC. I think if someone like Aston wants to do either F1 or WEC it would be better off doing F1. More bang for your buck and more track time. Personally I’m not much of a fan of this super season, but it’s not too much of a problem
I’m not sure how much longer the WEC will go on for. Certainly if F1 ever gives up the PUs, WEC might pick them up. Todt needs to do something |
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
7 Jun 2018, 11:18 (Ref:3827375) | #5608 | ||
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2020 Proposals For LMP1 Replacement
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7 Jun 2018, 11:32 (Ref:3827379) | #5609 | |
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I think I'm going to be sick.
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7 Jun 2018, 12:05 (Ref:3827384) | #5610 | ||
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BoP = egalitarianism |
7 Jun 2018, 12:58 (Ref:3827393) | #5611 | |
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How do you do styling cues in a a non spec class? Surely this is not the best aerodynamic solution. Let's hope we will not get BoP in the top class
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7 Jun 2018, 14:01 (Ref:3827402) | #5612 | ||
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No mention of private cars like we have currently from Oreca, BR, Kolles, Ginetta....
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7 Jun 2018, 14:33 (Ref:3827411) | #5613 | ||
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7 Jun 2018, 14:49 (Ref:3827413) | #5614 | ||
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7 Jun 2018, 14:55 (Ref:3827414) | #5615 | ||
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A BoP in this kind of GTP category would be a nightmare and the end of the spirit of this championship.
Last edited by PascaLM; 7 Jun 2018 at 15:00. |
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BoP = egalitarianism |
7 Jun 2018, 15:33 (Ref:3827425) | #5616 | |
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If they stay with the current type of rules for the power management, then I see no reason why it will be hard to equalize the competition. There's already aero parameters they have in consideration and they want the speeds of the new cars to be what it is today. With a less powerful hybrid, that means they'll have to open up the engines more. So we'll be seeing and hopefully hearing more powerful engines instead of the reliance on hybrid. I'm excited!
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7 Jun 2018, 16:31 (Ref:3827435) | #5617 | ||
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I guess we could see some designated areas on the chassis that can be used for non-aero-effective styling cues on the manufacturer cars and need to be left blank on the privateer cars.
Gesendet von meinem SM-A320FL mit Tapatalk |
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Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
7 Jun 2018, 17:37 (Ref:3827447) | #5618 | ||
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I'm a little confused as to what I make of all of this.
So if the plan is to use road cars (hypercars?) as a base, does that mean that Ferrari has to start with a LaFerrari tub off the production line? Or are they still designing a total prototype which has nothing to do with their road cars, but just merely may have "styling" cues for that manufacturer? If thats the case, why would an independant team bother with styling their car like a road car? |
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7 Jun 2018, 18:34 (Ref:3827458) | #5619 | |
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From what I can read it definitely seems the latter. Independent teams seem to not have to bother with styling.
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7 Jun 2018, 18:51 (Ref:3827464) | #5620 | ||
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Brum brum |
7 Jun 2018, 18:58 (Ref:3827465) | #5621 | |
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I'm skeptical over what we'll get from this. Modern hypercars like the Valkyrie are quite similar in profile to things like the Mercedes CLR and Porsche 911 GT1. Since those days we've made the cars thinner (to slow them in corners), have wider cockpits (to add drag and aid driver safety), added fins (to stop take offs), added honking holes (to stop take offs). All of these have a massive effect on the style.
I don't see how we can go down the hypercar route without rolling back all of these safety features. Maybe there are solutions, but I'm not seeing anything obvious right now. The limit on hybrid power and availability of power units to privateers is a good thing. Hybrids are good - they just need to be sustainable now. |
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7 Jun 2018, 19:03 (Ref:3827467) | #5622 | ||
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We are light on detail. As maybe the ACO are at this stage I’m fine with the principle, as someone who enjoyed the brief period in the mid-late ‘90s, but the proof will be in the pudding.
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Brum brum |
7 Jun 2018, 19:10 (Ref:3827472) | #5623 | ||
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I'm all for this. One of the best shaped prototypes imo. That was purely a prototype but it was all Mercedes and definitely recognized as such. |
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7 Jun 2018, 19:17 (Ref:3827476) | #5624 | |
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But trying to regulate good looks is a difficult thing. Remember that the concept behind Daytona Prototypes was to try and make them look like a modern version of the Ford GT40. That was so far off the mark it's hard to believe. |
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7 Jun 2018, 19:23 (Ref:3827479) | #5625 | |
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All I want is for the dreaded three competition destroying letters to stay as far away as possible from this. I will take a lot of compromises but not that.
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