![]() |
![]() |
|||||||||
|
||||||||||
![]() |
![]() |
|||||||||
|
||||||||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#251 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 772
![]() ![]() |
Cut Leclerc some slack. If you are writing him up like the world beater and he turns out not to be...will you then say he is overrated and criticize Ferrari for the choice?
He appears to be good. Give him some room to prove it before getting crazy about him. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#252 | |||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 43,222
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
There is uncertainty with Leclerc. We know Raikkonen rarely beats Vettel. Laclerc has been impressive, but it is difficult to know the ultimately level he is at. The potential is there. It isn’t with Raikkonen. Do I expect him to beat Vettel next year. Of course not. Would it surprise me if he did. No. |
|||
![]() |
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. ![]() |
![]() |
#253 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 943
![]() ![]() |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#254 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,012
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#255 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,985
![]() ![]() ![]() |
The way Ricciardo outperformed Vettel so comprehensively, rather shows that Vettel is just not that good (certainly not a bad driver... but on par with Hamilton or Alonso and worth a similar salary? probably not), so I think it is quite probable that Leclerc relative performnace will make Vettel's huge salary seem like a waste of money.
Therefore the Scuderia will find another driver to replace Vettel, either Verstappen if they want to keep spending huge salaries, or they could recall Ricciardo from Renault on a smaller salary IMO. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#256 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,012
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
Or to word it better - a single data point isn't worth that much when trying to consider things ![]() This type of thing is pretty common. There are super skilled NASCAR drivers who can't drive other types of car. It just doesn't suit them. There are super skilled F1 drivers who are mediocre at other cars too. There are drivers like Andre Lotterrer, who nailed the just-finishing LMP1 hybrid era like others struggled to. Vettel is one of those drivers. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#257 | ||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 43,222
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|||
![]() |
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. ![]() |
![]() |
#258 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 943
![]() ![]() |
Quote:
![]() |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#259 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,985
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
If Vettel had defeated Red Bull team-mate Alonso four times in the same car to a WDC that would be something, but simply not the case! Therefore it's quite hard to say, evidence shows that Vettel was significantly outperformed by Ricciardo who himself is outperformed by Verstappen. Actually, it's likely Verstappen is the best driver in F1 currently IMO [of course only a direct pairing of Verstappen and Hamilton would make it clear]. ![]() Since, Verstappen > Ricciardo > Vettel ![]() ![]() Obviously comeback M. Schumacher cannot be compared. ![]() Leclerc will beat Vettel. ![]() Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 5 Nov 2018 at 21:10. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#260 | |||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 43,222
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
As I said, I expect Vettel to have the upper hand next year. However I realise there is a chance that this might not be the case. I can accept that and that I cannot be certain. As I don’t have all the information to be dogmatic and definitive about it I am not. It isn’t lazy, or a cop out, it is rationale. I have given my expectation and I have given context of how confident I am. It is more difficult to do this, hence why most people are too lazy, or incapable, to make judgements in this manner. |
|||
![]() |
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. ![]() |
![]() |
#261 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,177
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
a) not have any expectations b) have a modicum of surprise at some outcomes, and c) not have any surprise at some others. The world isn't black and white. Leclerc might spank Vettel and nobody will be surprised if he does, because he's been given the Big Ups by practically everyone; equally likely is that Vettel spanks Leclerc, and nobody will be surprised because Vettel is a multiple word champion; also equally likely is that they're about even, which might be mildly surprising because the first two outcomes seem to be the ones that are being portrayed as most likely. In other words: we'll see in November 2019. |
||
![]() |
__________________
Walk a mile in someone else's shoes. When they realise you have, you'll be a mile away and you'll have their shoes. ![]() |
![]() |
#262 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 943
![]() ![]() |
Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#263 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 943
![]() ![]() |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#264 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,012
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I expect my car to start in the morning because that is the normal outcome. But given that it’s a 12 year old fiesta I won’t be surprised if it doesn’t. Just because it is not the expected outcome, doesn’t meant it’s surprising. There’s a real world example since you consider the previous one a cop out (it isn’t).
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#265 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,985
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
![]() ^(placing both drivers as solid talents that are between upper-midfield and top driver level) |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#266 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,406
![]() |
Here we go again. Vettel making excuses for not winning the title.
![]() https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...nant-car-in-18 Vettel really should learn how to be a gracious loser. He made excuses last year too. At least learn to be 'gracious'. Because being a 'loser', well... at least that bit is true and correct. ![]() |
||
![]() |
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving??? ![]() |
![]() |
#267 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,872
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|||
![]() |
__________________
Part time wingman, full time spud. ![]() |
![]() |
#268 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,795
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
cant say i disagree with SV in that link. Ferrari had a really strong car but they never did enjoy the same kind of dominance as Merc had when Merc showed up all dialed in.
they are close but still not yet as consistently 'there' as the Merc car. honest and true assessment from SV imo. |
||
![]() |
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place ![]() |
![]() |
#269 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,502
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
But still he made far too many mistakes for it to be just down to the car
|
|
![]() |
__________________
He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! ![]() |
![]() |
#270 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#271 | ||
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 39,746
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I'm not entirely convinced though that all of the errors were down to trying to outperform the car. Take Germany for instance. Desperation to keep the title alive had a smidge to do with it as well....
|
||
![]() |
__________________
357 days...... sigh....... ![]() |
![]() |
#272 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
Hamilton was also granted a free pass by the stewards for his pit entrance change, and Bottas on full wets was prevented from winning by Mercedes. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#273 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 772
![]() ![]() |
Germany was completely Vettel's error. But I am still thinking would it have happened had Ferrari called Kimi back 10 laps earlier. It was clear that Vettel was faster. He would have had a bigger lead meaning he would have been under less pressure.
Yes, the driver should not throw it away under any circumstances. But that might have contributed. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#274 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,502
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I think he could have bridged the gap without the mistakes, as sometimes the Ferrari has outperformed the Merc.
|
|
![]() |
__________________
He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! ![]() |
![]() |
#275 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
The problem with Ferrari for 2019.
Vettel v Leclerc and Arrivabene v Binotto the Ferrari Technical Director who was apparently going to be promoted to team Principle at the end of 2018 before the death of Sergio Marchionne. https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...power-struggle Last edited by wnut; 3 Dec 2018 at 04:29. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Would you prefer to view Ferrari domination or a Battling Ferrari? | Valve Bounce | Formula One | 36 | 25 Nov 2002 21:55 |
Ferrari boss theatens Ferrari may quit | Inigo Montoya | Formula One | 58 | 16 Oct 2002 07:58 |
Year old Ferrari for Ferrari in first GP | FullMonty | Formula One | 49 | 3 Mar 2002 05:28 |
Ferrari vs McLaren vs Ferrari? | pink69 | Formula One | 2 | 3 Jun 2001 19:57 |
Ferrari, Ferrari, Jaguar | SL | Formula One | 4 | 29 May 2001 12:54 |